Abusers of Disabled Bays

James_N

mysterywoman10 wrote: »

And I'm not a "do-gooder" thank you very much I am a carer of 23 years of a severely disabled person who passed away two years ago. And most of my friends are disabled or have disabled people to look after.

Bloody cheek!

YOU are the one who made the first post stating:
"I deplore people who park in disabled spaces, especially in a very busy car park and/or who have blue badges when they are clearly not entitled to them."
If you can't take a reasonable critical comment, perhaps you should have kept this original opinion to yourself!

sarahg1969

OP, what do you think about drivers who sit in their cars in disabled bays? They're entitled to use the bay, ok, but what if the driver is the disabled person? No need for the bay if they're not getting out. What if the person who's gone shopping is the disabled one? Again, no need for the bay. Drop them at the door and park in a normal bay then collect them afterwards.

Or what if they're 'entitled', but having a good day? Should they use one then?

Or what if they are 'entitled', but don't really need a wider bay? For instance, my gran had one, and it was useful for when we were taking her into town, or to a place where there was no parking close by, but at the supermarket, an ordinary bay was OK, so long as it wasn't right at the back of the car park. Would it have been OK for her to use a disabled bay, when she didn't need to, and could have been depriving someone who did need the space of the opportunity to park?

mysterywoman10

I did take the critical comment and moved on from it...I may have phrased it badly so I have clarified it. I'm not the one labouring the point and with respect you are side issuing the thread.

I've clarified and I still don't think it justifies insulting personal remarks.

kirkbyinfurnesslad_2

It was myself who parked there thank you very much.

So pls don't assume anything until you know the facts

mysterywoman10

sarahg1969 wrote: »

OP, what do you think about drivers who sit in their cars in disabled bays? They're entitled to use the bay, ok, but what if the driver is the disabled person? No need for the bay if they're not getting out. What if the person who's gone shopping is the disabled one? Again, no need for the bay. Drop them at the door and park in a normal bay then collect them afterwards.

Or what if they're 'entitled', but having a good day? Should they use one then?

Or what if they are 'entitled', but don't really need a wider bay? For instance, my gran had one, and it was useful for when we were taking her into town, or to a place where there was no parking close by, but at the supermarket, an ordinary bay was OK, so long as it wasn't right at the back of the car park. Would it have been OK for her to use a disabled bay, when she didn't need to, and could have been depriving someone who did need the space of the opportunity to park?

I think sometimes one can get too detailed I actually would make the wider bays for people who need them i.e. wheelchair users or frames.I would have two types of disabled spaces those with narrow bays for those that can't walk very far and those who need to get a wheelchair out etc. but I would let the system rely on the users rather than penalties. Bit like parent and children spaces. Unless they didn't have an entitlement to a space at all.

It is also not really the point of the discussion because on that basis there is no point to disability spaces. I don't think it is very helpful to negate from the issue of harassing geninuely disabled people who get parking tickets what ever the circumstances. But I do see your point. And the bays do have a wheelchair on them. Maybe you have come up with the answer wheelchairs only?!

mysterywoman10

kirkbyinfurnesslad wrote: »

It was myself who parked there thank you very much.

So pls don't assume anything until you know the facts

Sorry you have lost me there you parked where and what have I assumed?

mysterywoman10

To be honest I think it's a question of together we stand as always divided we fall. But that's what they rely on.

Ok kirkbyinfurnesslad I'm going to make a massive assumption here and "assume" the case I quoted at the beginning is yours? Because at this moment in time that's the only explanation I can come up with for your post. But I am fully willing to accept that I may be totally wrong.

If it is you and you had a genuine reason to park in disabled space whether blue badge holder or not I've not said I would penalise you. And I want to make it clear I am not saying that. I used the case because it is an issue there has to be some way of controlling private land parking. Otherwise it never would have got into statue, BUT it's been done in an appalling way.

There are two choices here IMO.

You carry on with the system as it is or you try and make a very good case for improving it and that was purely the point of my OP whether badly worded or not.

My intentions are genuine but I don't want to spend my life going around in circles which again and there really is no offence intended if you react like that to an "attempt" which is open to debate to try and come up with a structured plan to get changes then what is the point?

This forum and it's dedicated regulars are amazing in what they do and I'm not in any way decrying that and I'm sure it is very annoying what someone on their high horse comes in BUT I can't see any changes on the horizon unless you use all the data you clearly have and try and get some real changes made.

I've tried to rightly or wrongly and it's totally open to debate (without personal insults) attempt to show there might be a way forward. You can reject that of course you can but then do you want to be here in 10 years time answering the same posts?

And being more frustrated than you already are with "newbies" because I've tested out friends and 75% of them have had tickets and just paid them thinking they had no choice. And a lot of them struggled to get their heads around it, even face to face.

So either you want to change the system or you don't regardless of one's own appeal.

But the bottom line is if one takes the view that no one ever should be penalised for breaking the rules then you will not achieve any change, the system will stay as it is.

So the purpose of my post was to try and get a sensible debate on what would be acceptable and what would not.

But as I said a few posts back the lack of provision and regard to the disabled in a) the DVLC loose interpretation of S..27 and b) the FOI 2012 is the best grounds you have.

One of my suggestions which hasn't even been touched upon is why do the BPA say £100 ? Where is there justification for this figure? Start from the top down.

Coupon-mad

mysterywoman10 wrote: »

And I'm not a "do-gooder" thank you very much I am a carer of 23 years of a severely disabled person who passed away two years ago. And most of my friends are disabled or have disabled people to look after.

I have a similar personal background and also worked in disability advice as a Service Manager and later as a driver of adults with serious but 'invisible' mental impairment disabilities.

I have to agree with everyone else, you cannot tell who is entitled to park in a private disabled bay at a Store. I used to collect my late Mum in her wheelchair form Tesco regularly and I took great delight in laughing at people who saw me get out of my car in a disabled bay, glaring like some jumped-up jobsworths with NO CLUE as to who I was collecting. And the worst offenders were elderly men in large cars who seemed to think their Blue Badge was some sort of trophy and no-one else was worthy. Yes, my Mum had a Blue Badge - but if I was collecting her then I wouldn't have had her Blue Badge with me because she had got there by taxi - and I knew they are not applicable on private land anyway.

They can't be the only indicator of disability need on private land because that would exclude other disabled people such as a person just diagnosed with cancer...the list is endless.

And this debate has been done to death billions of times on here. Look at this case as far back as 2011 where a PPC idiot victimised a genuine disabled person:

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/3425191

You cannot justify a penalty for PERCEIVED disabled bay abuse, any more than a PPC could try to charge a customer for using a store wheelchair without a Blue Badge. They are all provisions under the Equality Act 2010 and persons who meet the definition of disability are legally entitled to use them without a blue hat, blue car, Blue Badge or whatever.

Stroma

I'm considered disabled under the Equality Act 2010, I have as much right to use a disabled bay on private land as any other disabled person. However I work for living, I drive a company van, and if I park my van in a disabled bay I would probably hear of complaints from certain sections of the public from the fleet manager.

The point is that looks can be deceiving, and disablement can take many forms, and a lot of people continue to work, and drive company vehicles, and they don't have a blue badge.

My opinion on parking bays on private land are well documented on here, I don't think there should be any distinction between bays, they should all be wide enough to open doors fully on either side, you take an average sized vehicle like a passat open the doors, take the width and that should be the size of a bay.

Most supermarket & retail car parks are never used fully ever, with a small proportion only used fully at the run up to Christmas only, and an even smaller amount fully used at other times.

mysterywoman10

Very good points stroma but regardless of disabled bays and blue badges and I actually really agree with your points.

it doesn't address the issue that a PCC now has the power to pursue a Keeper with no capacity who is unable to name the driver. Regardless of disabled badges, so you have an unregulated bunch pursuing someone who may not have mental capacity to understand what is happening or name the driver. That didn't apply until it was incorporated into the FOI 2012 act.

Financial abuse of a vulnerable adult is an offence.

For me that is a massive issue, given some of the stories of peoples letters and harassment.