Planning issue re Parking Ticket

mysterywoman10

DollyDee wrote: »

Tesco in Walsall were threatened with court action by the council if they did not reduce their free parking. Google "Tesco Walsall+parking" and read the Express & Star articles. Revenue from council car parks reduced dramatically after Tesco opened. The council were over the moon when Tesco agreed the development which involved land swapping and re-building the college in a new location then got miffed when their own parking revenue dropped.

We visited a week or so ago and I noticed they had got Highview in. Had a mooch round the store, hubby bought a suit (Clubcard boost ), had to wait while a member of staff went to find the trousers in the correct size in the stockroom, tried the suit on etc, paid and had to leave as 2 hours nearly up. We did want to visit other shops so had to move the car to the Saddlers Centre which meant going round the one-way system (sigh) but most of the time we would have just gone home as it's too much hassle.

The council say they want to encourage shoppers into town centres but it's almost like they want to put them off.

You have hit the nail on the head here Dolly this was another point the Manager of Morrison's made he said this happened in Darlaston as well to their store which was all day parking and the Council didn't like it. Apparently it led to a massive fall in revenue for the store as well afterwards.

The problem is Councils can't see further than the end of their noses all they see is one bit of revenue going down. But their policies are not in line with the document above. The Tesco's parking was originally 3 hours so still not that long. The Council doesn't actually have that much parking in the centre and much of it has disappeared over the years. The Stafford Street car park lost a lot of spaces when the College relocated as well.

Tesco's now has the largest car park in Walsall I would say its Crazy that people can't use it for longer than 2 hours. In the week its nearly always empty on the top! I would argue if you could park there you ARE more likely to go into the town centre as it is the nearest and has the best and quickest assess in and straight down to Park Street. I had the same last week and only had time for a quick wiz to Wilkos, back to Tescos and didn't have enough time to buy anything much as I was looking for Christmas presents.

In my district though they haven't got any paid parking the Council that is.
The esteemed leader of WMBC is such a plonker how much longer we have to wait to get rid of him remains to be seen!!

HO87

mysterywoman10 wrote: »

Hi Hog thanks for the PDF, interesting but I think that document strengthens the argument not weakens it. I'll explain why

In my letter to planning...
...I've noticed many new car parks run by the "cowboys" and PE are not doing this.

I think you might have missed the point MW. What you - and many others - interpret as "poor planning" is actually a direct result of the implementation of PPG13 not as a lack of foresight on the part of the planning authorities. As I have said, PPG13 is about moving people out of cars and onto their feet, buses or trains and part of that policy is encouraging restriction of parking both in terms of available spaces and the length of time that they can be used for. In other words, in PPG13 terms, private parking companies are all part of the mix of transport management and "enforcement" - public or private - is viewed as another tool in the PPG13'ers kit to reduce car usage. Besides, the local planners can just argue that they abide by government planning policy.

mysterywoman10

I haven't missed the point my point was that like all policies it is a question of how Local Authorities interpret them.

If one can demonstrate that their policies increase movement of cars in small areas then how do they stand up to scrutiny when aligned with PPG13?!

The bottom line is they don't. We all know they are having the opposite effect and leading to increased car use not less. That's why I'm going to take the planners on using their own documents to illustrate this. One can but try

It's not rocket science really you park for 6 hours in one car park and pay £2 to spend all day walking around the town/city shopping having lunch etc. OR you have 3 free parks at 2 hours each by moving your car. It has to be demonstrated that the PE's increase car movement, less walking etc.

mysterywoman10

I'm more than convinced than ever after reading the PPG13 it strengthens the argument against restrictive off road parking once you have driven to the town centre.

Use the example Dolly gave and this speaks volumes if you look at the E&S article trade to the town had decreased because of the introduction of on street parking charges (that I agree with) but the reason the council were annoyed was because of loss of revenue from the meters. The meters are to deter on street parking increase traffic flow, less congestion etc. not to raise revenue!

The same applies to parking (which it clearly states in the PPG13) should be proportionate. Tesco's get planning permission to build a massive new store in exchange for getting and rebuilding/relocating the college (please note here the old college) had a reasonable amount of parking which at the weekends was used as a pay car park for shoppers.

Tesco's already had a smaller store in the town centre which was very inaccessible especially if you wanted to do a large shop. So a deal was agree including loads of very assessable parking into the building. Tesco's car park is easily assessable from the ring road and it is huge. It has excellent assess through the store to the town centre. So why is parking restricted? How does that help Traffic congestion or less use of cars and how does it help the town's business? The bottom line is as Dolly has clearly illustrated it does not and it isn't actually Tesco's fault that they have to restrict their parking times...it is misguided interpretation of PPG13 by the LA and loss of revenue for their parking.

What we need is evidence by survey or something that most people who shop in Tesco's after or before doing a big grocery shop want to shop elsewhere in the town as well but are prevented from doing so because of parking restrictions.

Bringing it back to my District Centre again the PPG13 clearly states DC's should be used for achieving good links for work etc. that is not happening because if there is no where for people to park who are not on the bus route say a mile two miles out how do they do that? They can't cycle either because there are no pubic cycle shelters in the DC either. So again it is easy to demonstrate that the LA's interpretation of PPG13 is flawed. Whereas if they had a all day car park and secure cycle centres incorporated and it linked into the bus system into Birmingham it would work well and people would use it. Thereby achieving objectives laid out in PPG13. The journey into Birmingham (The UK's 2nd City) is probably worse than going into London from where we are and public transport is poor Travel companies like WMT (owned by National Express) have cut services not increased them) I can't get to my DC from where I live without a car there is no regular bus service. So they are not integrating transport at all in line with PPG13.

mysterywoman10

DollyDee wrote: »

Tesco in Walsall were threatened with court action by the council if they did not reduce their free parking. Google "Tesco Walsall+parking" and read the Express & Star articles. Revenue from council car parks reduced dramatically after Tesco opened. The council were over the moon when Tesco agreed the development which involved land swapping and re-building the college in a new location then got miffed when their own parking revenue dropped.

We visited a week or so ago and I noticed they had got Highview in. Had a mooch round the store, hubby bought a suit (Clubcard boost ), had to wait while a member of staff went to find the trousers in the correct size in the stockroom, tried the suit on etc, paid and had to leave as 2 hours nearly up. We did want to visit other shops so had to move the car to the Saddlers Centre which meant going round the one-way system (sigh) but most of the time we would have just gone home as it's too much hassle.

The council say they want to encourage shoppers into town centres but it's almost like they want to put them off.

Although if you wind back a bit this appears again from the E&S post 2006 and PPG13.

http://www.expressandstar.com/news/2013/08/12/car-parking-charges-cut-to-lure-walsall-shoppers/

This was before Tesco's obviously but from where I live I would have to negotiate the whole of Walsall adding to traffic congestion to get to the Saddlers. Whereas I can park in Tesco's very easily thereby alleviating traffic congestion. I'm going to speak to Tesco's and get their take on it. I.e. would they be willing to introduce charging rather than free 2 hour parking or options over and above that, if they were not restrained by the Council?

I'm starting to think maybe the way forward with all these parking issues is to get the big retailers who have all these restrictions placed upon them by the Councils on side. Because clearly the business are loosing out.

We can take on the Government/Councils and win it's about how you best go about it.

HO87

mysterywoman10 wrote: »

I haven't missed the point my point was that like all policies it is a question of how Local Authorities interpret them.

If one can demonstrate that their policies increase movement of cars in small areas then how do they stand up to scrutiny when aligned with PPG13?!

The bottom line is they don't. We all know they are having the opposite effect and leading to increased car use not less. That's why I'm going to take the planners on using their own documents to illustrate this. One can but try

It's not rocket science really you park for 6 hours in one car park and pay £2 to spend all day walking around the town/city shopping having lunch etc. OR you have 3 free parks at 2 hours each by moving your car. It has to be demonstrated that the PE's increase car movement, less walking etc.

Or people just don't bother. People don't park for 6 hours because they necessarily need it but because they can. Shorten the period and they make do with a single 2 hour slot. That is what the evidence, nationally, shows and is the entire purpose of the policy.

mysterywoman10

Can you give me a link to this evidence please. Why would someone park for 6 hours in a shopping area if they didn't need to? Surely they must be doing something in that time in the place they are in?

Yes they make do, but they don't shop in the same way and they will go for priority items rather than visiting a restaurant/pub/coffee shop as well and or window shopping. Or not bother to try on the thing they might have bought.

I would be very interested to see this information and how it relates to business turnover etc. and this policy.

Because I must be very dumb I can't see in the policy where it states reducing parking times aides the policy.

mysterywoman10

I think I'm going to tweet John Prescott and see what he's got to say for himself as it's his policy

Umkomaas

mysterywoman10 wrote: »

I think I'm going to tweet John Prescott and see what he's got to say for himself as it's his policy

Don't go leaving him with egg on his face

Again!

mysterywoman10

I think it's the Council who is going to have egg on their face :eek:

How long should I leave it for Morrisons to get back to me re the "charge" do you think?

Going back to the PPG13 I find it very interesting that on further inspection of the site today (I decided to get some photos) in case Morrisons don't play ball. That all this sustainability and non car use as being an excuse for maximised parking controls, they seem to have no problem not enforcing original conditions for the planning of a secure cycle shelter!!! There isn't one at all.

I've also done a quick survey of all the car parks in the District Centre most are non compliant and there is only one small Council owned car park you can park in all day free of charge which is completely full with commuters cars.

Plus the extension car park has no signs whatsoever in it