Planning issue re Parking Ticket

mysterywoman10

I've started reading all the information on how to appeal a ticket but it's a lot to take in.

In brief Hubby got a notice today from Euro car parks stating the car was parked in Morrison's for 47 minutes over the 3 hours free.

He was not driving the car at the time <cue blush from moi>

But the interesting part of this is, it is a new section of the car park which was built from land attached to an old bingo hall which is now a new Weatherspoons. I've just dug up the planning proposal and it was all about bringing extra parking into the village/town etc etc and getting people to use that end of the town etc.

So how in the hell are you supposed to do a shop, meet some friends for lunch and then wander off around the village but it must be done in 3 hours!? The point being there isn't an option to pay for the parking or stay longer.

So it seems it may be unclear who's car park it actually is the section I was parked in that is although you have to go through the Morrison's entrance to get to it.

I'm a bit confused on what the best way to appeal this ticket the example letters seem very long and the Euro Car park letter seems to tick all the boxes it should?

Any help/advice much appreciated.

Coupon-mad

1. You could complain to Morrisons but I suspect you'll need to Google the name of the car park and look for newspaper articles or retail adverts which give away the landowner or agents. Complaining is the easiest way to get this cancelled and I have written another sticky thread about that!

2. Just send a short appeal as in the example on the newbies' sticky thread under the words 'just appeal anyway' which leads you to a pepipoo thread where the poster summarises in simple bullet-point terms, how they appealed as KEEPER.

mysterywoman10

Thank you very much "just appeal anyway" link is very helpful.

That's the point I think the land is part owned by Morrison's and the other bit by the franchise company of Weatherspoons so it would depend on where you had actually parked? The other factor is that this has only recently started happening to people because they are using the Weatherspoons and shopping together etc. Which somewhat seems to defeat the object of trying to bring more business etc into the village if everyone gets a parking ticket, for spending longer shopping, having a meal etc.

I've managed to find the receipts for the day for both Morrison's & Weatherspoons.

So I was wondering if we draft a letter up along the lines of the link could we also argue that the notice letter states it was parked in Morrison's and that it was not parked in Morrison's it was parked on other land?

I'm a bit mystified as to how you complain to Morrison's in the store without giving away who was driving.

The whole system of parking these days in most places is what is probably causing most loss to businesses rather than people who over stay by shopping, eating etc!! Crazy world we live in....so now in our small town/village shopping area there is no where to park for longer than 3 hours

Thanks again.

Guys_Dad

Check planning details with council planning.

mysterywoman10

Thanks yes I've dug it up from the Council's planning portal and it says

12. The proposed car park extension shall be available and subject to same parking

regime as the existing Morrison’s car park regime.

Reason: To ensure the car park serves the needs of customers, patrons, shoppers and

visitors the ********** District Centre in accordance with policy S4 and T7.

Huibby is going up today to complain to the Morrisons maanger also ask who actually owns the land the vehicle was parked on. We are going to look at the signs as well and speak to friends to find out when the cameras were introduced., which we think was after the car park extension.

Also how can £90 be a proportionate loss in a "free carpark"?

Half_way

Also how can £90 be a proportionate loss in a "free carpark"

its not, in my opinion you syhould always complain strongly to the supermarket/car park owner, as it is them who have allowed the parking company to operate on their land.
would you send a letter/complain to Mittie ( a cleaning contractor) if the toilets were dirty, or to the store?

Your first point of contact should be customer services, its what there there for you probably wont get far, and if they tell you that they are not responsible for the car park remind them politely that the parking company are their agents and they are fully responsiable for their agents actions.
You should also complain to the store on the same points (and a few more) that you would use in a POPLA challenge.
Not a genuine pre estimate of loss, unlawful penalty, no contract with the driver, PPC has no right to issue these things, breach of the CPUTR (consumer protection from unfair trading regulations) and that the letter from their agents for whom they are fully responsible for amount to harassment, and as such Morrisons must now put a stop this imediatly, and give re-assurances that this will never happen again.

Redx

your case is not much different to the one I posted about in my own SUCCESS thread yesterday labelled Success:- Crown Point North versus PE or the one I replied to recently with example letters, especially as you have receipts too, the thread labelled "Help with appeal to vehicle control services pls"

but I would also agree that complaining to the store or landowner to get the charge waived is also a great idea, stopping it as soon as is reasonably possible being the best way

mysterywoman10

Many thanks guys your advice is much appreciated and the other threads links.

So just to clarify, if I discover that the car park is owned by two different companies i.e. Morrisons and X Investment Company owning a different section of land within it. Does this mean that Euro Car Parks would have to have a contract with both of them in order to enforce the Parking Charges? Because the vehicle was not parked on the Morrisons land which it says in the notice it was.

This is in addition to the other points I can make as made above by Halfway and in other threads.

Bwib

mysterywoman10 wrote: »

Huibby is going up today to complain to the Morrisons maanger also ask who actually owns the land the vehicle was parked on.

New and struggling myself so wouldn't presume to advise you (other than to read, read, read!)

But just thought this info might save you some leg work with Morrisons if you do need to find out landowner details.

Linda Goodacre - Director of estates
Louise Phillips - Estates team Leader (or co-ordinator).

Seems they know everything there is to know about what Morrisons own and whose land they use/lease/rent etc and have been forthcoming with confirming situation and providing landowner contact details.

Tel 01274 261000 (had to be very assertive with switchboard). I got what I needed to know with a few phone calls but expect their emails addresses follow others within Morrisons ie Christian name dot surname @ morrisonsplc.co.uk

Hope that helps if you don't get anywhere with the store manager.

Redx

mysterywoman10 wrote: »

Many thanks guys your advice is much appreciated and the other threads links.

So just to clarify, if I discover that the car park is owned by two different companies i.e. Morrisons and X Investment Company owning a different section of land within it. Does this mean that Euro Car Parks would have to have a contract with both of them in order to enforce the Parking Charges? Because the vehicle was not parked on the Morrisons land which it says in the notice it was.

This is in addition to the other points I can make as made above by Halfway and in other threads.

I would say that may be one method that it may happen

the alternative is that the landowner allows the leaseholder to do so by having a contract between themselves that specifically allows the leaseholder to appoint and run a PCC

at the end of the day, you have parked on land belonging to a landowner , so only that landowner or a legally appointed agent can take you to court for trespass

its something like that anyway

there are plenty of threads on here about PPC`s not having legal contracts in place to actually "manage" these car parks, some landowners like tesco have actually stopped leaseholders like BM sales from doing this, once alerted

also looking through the threads here it seems that possibly liverpool airport have a contract with a PCC and yet the pcc may be illegally enforcing management rules on public highways , that remains to be seen

so its not just enough to say that they have the right to "manage" the car parking , this right must exist through a link to the actual landowner, which may be a direct contract with the landowner, or a legal contract that exists between the landowner and the leaseholder which may allow the leaseholder to do all this on behalf of the landowner

in any case, normally the charges have to be within GPEOL (genuine pre-estimate of loss) and so should only reflect a lot less than the amount on your ticket, which generally is the point here

had you received a charge of say £10 to cover charges , losses and postage and admin costs then maybe you would have paid it, as it would not be unreasonable (ignoring your points about the land and who owns each part of it)

I also agree that 3 hours may not be enough time, it certainly wasnt in 4 hours for my relative who had stayed nearly 5 hours on that car park, but the soft appeal I mentioned worked with PE, you can see a similar but changed copy of the appeal in the MATALAN thread I mentioned earlier

spacey2012

I can answer the question for you.
They will lie and claim the car park is privately owned and nothing to do with them.
This is standard policy.

Make a written complaint to the council about the breech of planning and demand they investigate and instigate action.