Planning issue re Parking Ticket

Guys_Dad

Your post #5 says the new bit is under the same regime as the original. Not sure just how far "regime" extends, so I would check 2 things with the council.

1. What do they mean by "regime"?
2. What free time was originally on the planning consent for Morrison? It may be that the 3 hour limit is something Morrison brought in without planning consent.

Also if it was a NtK from ANPR, have they got planning permission for the cameras?

mysterywoman10

Update I've seen the duty manager at Wetherspoons and Morrisons.

On arrival it was clear that the car park was for Morrisons use only!! Not in line with the original planning approval at all which clearly states it is going to have dual use parking for the benefit of the district centre. The Wetherspoons manager kindly told me that the owners of the land (the investment company) and pub had leased it to Morrisons!! That staff had no where to park at all.

Anyway the Morrisons Duty manager seemed keen to appease me and told me that they only had contact with Euro Car Parks through another third party but would phone this 3rd party on Monday and ask for the ticket to be dropped. I would be telephoned on Monday regarding this so a reasonable result so far thanks to all the advice I've received on here.

I'm still going to pursue a complaint regarding the breach of planning permission though because it clearly shows the car parking is dual purpose and is mentioned numerous times in all the documents as grounds for the permission etc. Including the transport plan.

Also the manager of Wetherspoons kindly pointed out why would they have put 3 disabled space directly where they had in the new parking area when they were no where near the entrance to Morrisons!! The service road in front of the pub is now rammed with cars from staff and customers and the original planning proposal was supposed to have avoided all of this happening.

The young Duty Manager agree also agreed £90 was excessive and that he didn't realise what the original planning had said regarding the extra parking.

Thanks again for all your help, will keep you posted on developments.

Coupon-mad

Good result so far and so glad to read you are not letting it lie!

mysterywoman10

I don't let things lie, I actually feel more strongly about the planning breach than the ticket! I've typed a 3 page letter to the planning department which doesn't mention my ticket.

I feel very strongly that these large developments claim to be increasing parking for run down areas etc., but the reality is they are not because for example in our main Town a massive re-development by Tesco's is 2 hours free that's it. So no time or opportunity to visit any other shops what so ever. It's very short sighted of planners to allow it on that basis because it actually does nothing to improve trading for all.

One feels these days as though you can't shop without constantly having to think about have you paid and displayed enough or is your time up on the free parking. I often don't get to many shops I would like to visit because time runs out, let alone a meal or a drink!

The old system of paying when you left a car park avoided all of this because you paid for what you had and it was trouble free. All other forms of private/public parking should be banned and that's it and penalties should only be applicable if you do something really bad like park in front of the entrance or something! It's easily achieved with the barrier system and taking a ticket which you have to pay at the machine before you leave. Fair enough if you loose your ticket and have to pay a £10 charge. Or even more old fashioned.... bit radical though ACTUALLY employ someone to take the money or check receipts for free parking in a booth!!!

Umkomaas

These car parks are an absolute godsend to parking companies who have no interest whatsoever in 'managing' them - their purpose is to 'farm' them.

And as you say, who wants to be constantly clock watching while they're out for a day of shopping (or even window shopping), all of which ultimately means money into the local economy (whereas very few PPCs have any local connections). Not forgetting that every £100 in a PPC's hand is potentially a £100 less in a local retailer's till.

Good luck in your quest, I'm sure we all applaud your stance and will be very interested in the result.

mysterywoman10

Absolutely.... In the planning proposal by the investment company they talked of increasing decline in local shopping etc. due to buying online etc. is it any wonder when all you get is hassle and worry about parking when you try and go and wander around the shops. I think there should be a national campaign to do something about it!! Is there one?

Interestingly that's what the sweet young Manager of Morrisons said this parking company are in London not local, what do they know about it and said he had stopped going to another local town to shop because of the nightmare over parking and charges etc.

Then there's the issue of the Government changing the law to let these companies assess people's details at the DVLC even when a ticket hasn't been issued. Which to my mind makes a mockery of the Data Protection Act. It is all so short sighted why do we put up with such incompetence and allow are Country to go to the dogs?!

The bottom line is though the large multi nationals and investment companies along with the Government run the show and we need to do something about it because the issue is wider than just the parking or charges. The loser is the shopper and the much smaller retailer.

We have another new development in another nearby District going through planning to redevelop the High street and surrounding area by Tesco's again, this has made me realise that the parking eye actually means people have no choice but to actually move their cars to shop even in a small district....crazy. It already has cameras there at Aldi, B&M Tesco's all in the same area so if you want to go to all three shops with a limit of 1.5 hrs pretty rushed let alone any others or visit the canal. You would have to jump from one carpark to another. It's already killed the local market.

4consumerrights

Well done mysterywoman10 for not letting this matter lie.

Have you tried the following to stir things up further?

Contact the local taxation department and suggest that the PPC are not paying business rates for their commercial operation on the site - if the PPC is engaged as a separate entity to the landowner/agent or tenants Morrisons/Weatherspoons then they should be paying for imposing charges.

Complain to your local MP and also the councillor with your concerns about the effects this is having on the local economy.

Write to the investment company directly regarding the breach of planning and the intended purpose of the car park and what the effects this is having on the community and which may ultimately cause repercussions for the investment company.

Contact your local press to highlight the situation.

HO87

Have a go at your local authority by all means. The problem is that all they are doing is ensuring that government intentions - specifically PPG13 (opens as a PDF) - is implemented and their ar $ es are covered. The whole import of that document is to get people out of cars, to walk and cycle more and to use public transport. The current version of PPG13 has been toned down slightly compared with the more strident version brought in 2001 by the Bliar junta. The problem is that many, many of the civil servants in the ministries and local government worked for an extended period under the "harder" version. Don't go thinking this is just another haphazard affair and so different is the Camoron outfit that they have taken the policy on without a whimper.

DollyDee_2

Tesco in Walsall were threatened with court action by the council if they did not reduce their free parking. Google "Tesco Walsall+parking" and read the Express & Star articles. Revenue from council car parks reduced dramatically after Tesco opened. The council were over the moon when Tesco agreed the development which involved land swapping and re-building the college in a new location then got miffed when their own parking revenue dropped.

We visited a week or so ago and I noticed they had got Highview in. Had a mooch round the store, hubby bought a suit (Clubcard boost ), had to wait while a member of staff went to find the trousers in the correct size in the stockroom, tried the suit on etc, paid and had to leave as 2 hours nearly up. We did want to visit other shops so had to move the car to the Saddlers Centre which meant going round the one-way system (sigh) but most of the time we would have just gone home as it's too much hassle.

The council say they want to encourage shoppers into town centres but it's almost like they want to put them off.

mysterywoman10

Hi Hog thanks for the PDF, interesting but I think that document strengthens the argument not weakens it. I'll explain why

In my letter to planning I have gone to great lengths to demonstrate the reasons for the planning in the first place and how it fitted with the transport planning document that had to be submitted for the development. The parking in question meant there was improved walk way assess as well as part of the project. By large companies employing and restricting parking times people are far more likely to have to use their car again just to move it a short distance or drive off somewhere else to shop? The document can be used to try and get planners and LA's to stop large developments making parking so restrictive particularly in terms of limits.

Indeed in the village in question, the Morrison's car park used to be completely unrestricted parking, which is why was it changed quite a while back to stop people parking there all day. Why were they parking there all day? To catch the direct bus into Birmingham to work which is about 12 miles away!

There has been a large increase and complaints from residents recently in the suburb of people parking on side streets who are commuting to Birmingham on public transport. Therefore I would say it gives an even weightier argument to non restrictive parking in large parking areas and even that they should be provided which in the case of "park & ride" they are.

The infer structure in this country is bad we all know that and one of the main causes is extremely poor planning and that is still happening. I think we should be looking at "commute & ride" schemes in fact the village/district centre in question and the other one I mentioned which is on the same direct bus route would be perfect for this, if only there was a large low cost car park for people to use!

Also the document makes it quite clear about disabled people including drivers and in this instance the case falls down even more hence the "Wetherspoons" managers comments about the disabled spaces. On the day in question when I got the ticket I was having lunch with a very severely disabled person and that was a significant factor in why I ran over on the time.

The other thing is when it comes to parking and blue badges, if they provide disabled spaces they need to highlight on the signage VERY CLEARLY if they intend to charge or restrict parking to blue badge holders and I've noticed many new car parks run by the "cowboys" and PE are not doing this.