J.A.S.'s fixing the damp & swimming pool in the house thread....

DRP

Thanks JAS for posting this detailed thread of your issues/thoughts - we moved into our house in october and we also have damp issues, although nowhere near the magnitude you describe... it has been really useful to hear of the comments made by other posters and your extensive research into the problem. Please keep us updated!

Regarding the previous owner, doesn't the presence of the pump itself point to evidence that the prev owner lied on the Property Information Form re:flooding? I would definitely be pursuing this route in addition to the more practical stuff you are doing

JustAnotherSaver wrote: »

Just an update (for own reference point & for those who are implying i'm sat not doing anything)...

Our solicitor got back to us & said that we may have a claim for the previous owners misleading us.
We've been directed to a form the previous owner completed, specifically regards flooding where the previous owner said no.

This is why i put emphasis on may. My concern here is we only have the neighbours word that our place suffered from water through the boards & the water line comes up 5 course on a 9 course high wall, that still leaves 4 course apparently dry.
I wonder if the 5 course is perhaps where the water was regularly & that if (rarely) it passed this then the bricks wont have been wet for long enough to stay dark/stained??

As nothing ever seems to work out as you want, i'm taking a guess that there's going to be a brick wall (no pun) at the end of this road, but we'll have to see.

JustAnotherSaver

DRP wrote: »

Thanks JAS for posting this detailed thread of your issues/thoughts - we moved into our house in october and we also have damp issues, although nowhere near the magnitude you describe... it has been really useful to hear of the comments made by other posters and your extensive research into the problem. Please keep us updated!

No problem. This will inevitably contain many useful posts for others actually dealing with others, but it for sure is going to contain many ramblings from myself :rotfl:Just to warn everyone

I should have a house maintenance/improvement thread, as i'm far from DIY minded & it'd keep it all 'under one roof', but then those who can help with floors for example may be clueless about roofs or plumbing for e.g. & then the thread (& I) would suffer, so for now i apologise for the forum suffering from my many threads :rotfl:

Regarding the previous owner, doesn't the presence of the pump itself point to evidence that the prev owner lied on the Property Information Form re:flooding? I would definitely be pursuing this route in addition to the more practical stuff you are doing

Our solicitor said it'd be the new year before he could look into it. I guess perhaps he's not back until tomorrow like many others, unlike those of us who had to return on the 2nd.

My question would be though - what would you say in the previous owners position?

I know what i'd say - Sorry officer, don't know what you're talking about. Must've been the owner before us who did that.

Whether that'd be an acceptable response i don't know, but it's probably the road i'd go down.

I can't blame them on 2 counts:

1) What classifies 'flooding'? Water flowing through the living room damaging the furniture? Or a level 5 course high on a 9 course brick wall UNDER the floorboards? One may think the latter but i'd bet many wouldn't.
2) They wanted to sell the house so did what they had to do. They wouldn't be the only ones.

At the moment i'm wishing we hadn't bought the bloody thing. Fact is we have & we're going to have to deal with it. Shame because the area is lovely, as is the house really. It's JUST the water underneath & that is the only issue.


Hell fire i don't half ramble when i get bored. lol.

cyclonebri1

JAS, it really is time to accept that like many of us, you to have problems..

Maybe giving the thread a break, ( a termination point), would be good,:T:T.

It's all valid but getting far to complex for anyone coming in.:A

JustAnotherSaver

We have a proper update for you guys...

So as i said earlier, i got in touch with the water board and the council to see if they could help us as to the origin of this water. I got in touch with the water board a while ago (still waiting) & the council got back to us today.

It seems none of them really had a clue as to what department should deal with our problem. We got an initial reply saying it had been forwarded to their "building control department". In the response i got today i can see the progression my email took .... that dept sent it on to another saying "Good afternoon, I think this may be for your department but am not sure." who sent it on to another dept saying "This has been sent through to the building control inbox by customer services.... It doesn't sound like something building control would be able to deal with but is this something either of you are able to advise on?" who sent it on to someone else who said "Cheers" Who sent it on to the person who actually replied to us who said...

I have been asked by my colleague to respond to your query.

As a drainage engineer I investigated a similar situation to the one you describe some 30 years ago in your area.

I]the area our house is in[/I has many naturally occurring 'water issues' (springs) and you should not restrict them.

Since there is a pump and sump this obviously has been occurring for some time .

My suggestion would be to make sure the ventilation under your house is clear and functioning correctly, I would suggest the pump was installed as 'piece of mind'. This water would only become a problem if it regularly came into contact with the floor joist.

I'm not 100% happy/comfortable/accepting with the above though.


It's good to know that our area (though don't know if he meant specifically our street, as our area could be a mile away for all i know) was looked at with similar issues 30 years ago. This takes it beyond the uni being built & putting extra strain on the drainage system.



The existence of a sump & pump to me doesn't indicate the problem being there a long time. I didn't send them any photos indicating how old the sump pump looks. I agree he is quite probably correct, but for all he knows this pump could've been installed a month previous.


I'm not happy with the ventilation comment though. The entire bottom row of bricks could be replaced with fans blowing through there all lined up in a row & it will still not get rid of the level of water that is there. A bit of water perhaps, but 3.5"? 4.5"? And today after the rainfall .... 5.0"?? Across such an area? I don't believe it. We're not talking 5" up a test tube, it's 5" over a large area.


I also disagree the pump would've been installed as "piece of mind". I highly suspect it would've been installed to pump the bloody stuff away!! Not a, oh we'll put this here & if it gets REALLY bad it should kick in.


I also totally disagree with the final point made that the water should "ONLY" become a problem if it "REGULARLY" comes into contact with the joists.
As has been mentioned by our damp surveyor, the water is contributing to moist air under there which is putting the timber at a level where decay sets in and also the moisture is bridging the DPC & wrecking the walls above floor level.
So while the level hasn't yet touched the joists, it has already become a problem.

JustAnotherSaver

So i responded to the chap as i wasn't totally happy with their reply - i didn't believe air bricks were the solution & i didn't believe water needed to physically touch the joists to become a problem. So i got their response today...

Morning Mr ..........,

The short answer to your question is I have found no solution just ways of 'managing' it.

If you are unhappy with the current the suggestions below should help.

1) Pipe the water away by gravity but, since there is already a pump installed, I presume this is not an option.

2) Keep the water level down by installation of a pump, to be controlled by a float switch in a sump.

3) Positive air pressure underfloor by installing a fan.

4) Install more airbricks to increase underfloor air flow.

#1 We're at a dip in the road. Can't see this one being possible, short of digging up much of the land around us & costing a few bob.

#2 I'm thinking this is perhaps the only solution that fits us right now

#3 As i said to the chap - i believe you could have 1 giant air brick around the bottom of the house with industrial sized fans lined up continuously blowing gale force winds. I don't believe this is going to shift the level of water that exists.

#4 Don't believe this is the solution.

So we go back to #2.



And to further address the point i've not been sitting on my behind, i've been to price up going solid flooring.

I spoke to one of the salesman at a builders merchants & told him what i was interested in doing. I gave him the dimensions. I don't know the hall dimensions so i switched the living room 6.7m-x-3.3m to just 7m-x-4m as a rough guide.
Ok ok he says.
I tell him it's just a tad shy of 1mtr deep.

The chap nearly choked. En effing lot he says. This is just purely materials required. Not quite £10k but not a million miles off & THEN there's the labour on top.

& that'd be with my discount.

He strongly advised going for concrete beams & blocks instead. He didn't refer to it as beam+block, but something like pot-something instead. Can't remember the term.

We're waiting on this builder getting back to us but he's being a bit of a drag-!!!! so we may have to source someone else who's willing to get back in touch. There seems to be a hold up at every stop.



SO....at the moment i'm thinking...

1. keep it as is, but with a decent sump pump. Problem then being at what point do we have it kick in since 4.5" seems to be the natural level & we don't want it on every 5 mins. Get the walls sorted by just re-plastering. Hope the wooden joists & boards last some years giving us time to save up for concrete beams in the meantime.

2. go for concrete beams anyway. Problem there is setting up a pump & access to said pump. Re-plaster the walls as mentioned.

I'm leaning towards leaving the timber floors as is. They're currently sound. Yes they may last 5 minutes, they may last 20 years. Who knows.


If we had an endless wad of cash then we'd go solid flooring as fluffymuffy & cyclonebri have said, but it's looking like this is going to be too far out of our budget.

JohnB47

As regards the 'pipe the warer away by gravity' suggestion, although you say you are in a dip in the road, your drainage/sewage must run away from the house. So is there no chance that you could dig a drainage channel through the wall of the house (suitably supported) fill it with chipings and route it out to a big soakaway in the garden?

It seems to me that no one would build a house directly over a pond, so I feel that the house walls are trapping water that previously would have drained away naturally and your best bet is to provide a way out for it.

Just my two hapenth worth.

JustAnotherSaver

Had the builder round to look at it today...

I didn't speak to the chap as i was at work. The wife did though. From what she said i'm not too impressed.

* He was in & out within 15-20 mins. I'm not saying he should stay there all day to assess, but she said she felt he was rushing, itching to get out.

* She asked if he wanted her to knock the float to pump the water away so that he could better see the pit that'd been DIYd out. He said no. I'd have thought you'd want to take a look?

* He didn't answer many questions she asked & just skimmed over things going very quickly.

* When she said about another job of removing a door & blocking/boarding up, she later on referred to this & he was like "err what door?" - as though he hadn't been listening.

* She mentioned the specific plaster mix as advised by the damp surveyor. He seemed to ignore this totally & just said they'd just plaster in a patch just above where it's salting.

* He said the floorboards & wooden joists are fine & have been there for donkeys years .... going for concrete beams is going over the top.

* Didn't seem to take it in when she said she wanted the chimney breast replastering top-to-bottom since it's quite badly cracked.

* Kept eyeing his kid he'd left in his van that he'd brought with him.

* Said he'd been to other houses in the area - same problem & that we'll never cure it, it's there to stay & that this is why they would've put a crawlspace of 1mtr in as usually it's not so deep?

* So long as the water isn't near the joists there's no problem. 5" level of water is still a good distance off the joists & he says this is fine.

* Agrees that a new pump should be fitted, however although he advertises as doing damp work & the like, he says he can fit them but can't power them/wire them in. He'd have to bring in his electrician mate for that.

* Didn't bring his own torch or anything to look underneath. Had the wife not taken one he wouldn't have been able to have a look.

Just in general he seemed to whizz through it & didn't explain much or answer much. He did say we need a new pump though which we knew and that the flooring is fine as it is which we didn't know.

The drive way man who came out spent longer & his job was a piece of piddle - just measuring & drawing. He spent a good amount of time going through things, options etc with the wife, explaining the process & her options. The builder on the other hand she said he seemed to want to be in & out within 5 mins.


So looks like we'll need to source another chap. At least it's a start though.

maas

JustAnotherSaver wrote: »

* Agrees that a new pump should be fitted, however although he advertises as doing damp work & the like, he says he can fit them but can't power them/wire them in. He'd have to bring in his electrician mate for that.

Where did you get this clown from? This is a big job, get a proper firm to do it not some average joe

JustAnotherSaver

Problem here though is you can't win.

You get in a big national firm (Peter Cox). Ok they didn't diagnose the cause, but their solution was £3k. You speak to people - friends, family, work colleagues, tradesmen & they ALL say "ooooh Peter Cox know how to charge" and "£3k? How effing much?????".

So you get them saying to get just your regular builder who would be able to do exactly the same job, but cheaper because the income is for himself, not the whopping company. Even people on MSE have said that.

So that's what you do, that's what we did & we ended up with what happened yesterday.
I'm not saying this chap represents all 1-man-band builders as i'm sure there's many good ones, but he's our first one.

What annoys me is that we'd never met this guy before, he'd never met us, so you'd think, as he's wanting to put his business about, that first impressions are EVERYTHING, so you'd go out of your way.

Here's a problem ....
Oh ok well this is what we'd do with this & this is what it'd involve.

Here's another problem we have ....
Well this is what we'd do here, this is what it entails. Or even .... you're worrying over nothing & this is why...

But nope, in & out.

maas wrote: »

Where did you get this clown from?

Google.

We searched for builders in our area & most of them were advertised as your general builder. This guy advertised himself as dealing with damp work & plastering so we thought hang on this is ticking all our boxes, let's get in touch.

In fact the funny thing is, just looking back, he actually advertises electrics...

• Plumbing
• Electrical
• Joinery
• Sandblasting
• Cellar conversions
• Damp coursing / Tanking
• Extensions
• Alterations
• Plastering
• Pebble-dashing
• Structural work
• Renovation work
• Fireplaces

This is a big job, get a proper firm to do it not some average joe

See i agree with part of what you say. The big firm gives you that (false sense of??) security, but at the end of the day it's still builders working for that firm who "should" be no better than 1 man bands. If the builder doing the work leaves that firm & sets up on his own that doesn't drop his skills any.


Anyway, we'll just have to get another person in to quote & keep doing this until someone seems interested in answering questions & seems thorough in their work.

maas

JustAnotherSaver wrote: »

Anyway, we'll just have to get another person in to quote & keep doing this until someone seems interested in answering questions & seems thorough in their work.

Are you actually in any hurry to get this work done?

It sounds like you've not really got the means to get this work done, which explains a lot of dithering and dathering. The builders know a time waster when they see one.