What planet are the Job Centre Advisers on?

John1993_2

red_devil wrote: »

They are also very incompetent

Well they are clearly more competent at their job than many of their "customers" were at theirs, as they haven't lost them, so it's a bit rich to be so dismissive.

As to your claim that without jobseekers they'd have no job, that's ridiculous, there's no reason to assume that they could not hold down all sorts of other jobs. They aren't the ones that need a state provided advisor to try to find them work...

red_devil

John1993 wrote: »

Well they are clearly more competent at their job than many of their "customers" were at theirs, as they haven't lost them, so it's a bit rich to be so dismissive.

As to your claim that without jobseekers they'd have no job, that's ridiculous, there's no reason to assume that they could not hold down all sorts of other jobs. They aren't the ones that need a state provided advisor to try to find them work...

They arent competent. I have been given someone elses jobseekers agreement today with someone elses National Insurance number on it. They also dont give out the correct information.

You are assuming people lose their job because they are incompetent. Have you not heard of redundancy and firms cutting back. How can you assume that people are unemployed because they arent competent.

Alot of the jobsworths in the jobcentre think they can talk down to people. Some of the people they are talking too, could be managers and people who have had high powered jobs. They have actually done better than the advisors who are trying to tell them what to do.

Missme

szam_ wrote: »

I agree to a point, but I can't agree that it's the JCP staff's job to sanction people. It is to assist and advise, not do the job searching for said job seeker, if said person isn't helping themselves, then of course, why would they deserve anything less than a sanction? I feel this whole conspiracy theory that all JCP is there for is to sanction as many people as possible is wholly untrue. Mistakes are made, yes, everyone makes them. There are bound to be some bad, spiteful people working in JCP offices, but are likely the minority.

What would help both staff and job seeker? If people stopped automatically assuming that the JCP is this big, evil place where no-one wants to help and they just want to sanction you. Did anyone ever think that some of the people with this assumption go in to a JCP and treat their adviser with disdain and disrespect and maybe this is why they are treated the same way back? (And if you feel they are treating you unfairly, report it! You can't constantly whinge about something but not do anything about it!) Why would they want to help someone if the job seekers refuses to listen, take on board what you are telling them and generally refuse any advise or assistance? As you said, they are from the same planet, respect goes both ways, if you're not giving it, don't expect it back. Enough trips to the job centre tells me I would absolutely detest working in one from the attitudes I see some people give staff there, it's no wonder morale always seems so low.

I have always treated advisers with respect and I have always received it back, as well as offers for as much help as I may require, whether the offers were not suited to me or were actually helpful, the effort was always appreciated.

I note what you're saying but will put these points to you:

When an organisation has targets around a particular area of work, would that not indicate that that area of work s a significant part of the job? While the DWP may deny such targets, have we not had whistle-blower evidence to the contrary?

And then there is the obscenity of celebrating Conditionality Week.

I've had scant involvement with JCP staff - and this goes back years - but I managed to get an apology for a worker being, essentially, too lazy to rise from her chair to find her next customer. Having never met her nor knowing exactly who I was going to see, why would i not sit where directed by the 'meeters and greeters'? Why would she not take the time to visit each set of sofas to find her customer? Some of her colleagues did. And when I enquired of her and her manager whether she had some form of disability that prevented her from doing so and what measures were in place to ensure customers receive an equitable service... oh surprise, it was their mistake. If I were less articulate and loud she'd have shafted me hard and expected a smile and a thank you.

Certainly not all JCP staff are like that but the ones who are - and they reportedly exist in significant numbers - have the opportunity to !!!! over a considerable number of people without turning a hair. !!!!!!! people over because the system tells you to is bad enough but being subject to the whims of @rses should not factor.

Until I have "ENEMA" tattooed on my head, I, absolutely, don't take !!!! from @rseholes - and nor should anyone else.

szam_

John1993 wrote: »

Who should do it then? If people aren't putting in the effort, in the right way, and with the right attitude, to find a job, then it's right and proper that their benefits are scaled back. Jobseekers allowance comes with conditions, and if these are not met, the benefit ought to be stopped.

If it's not the JCP staff who should make the determination, who should it be?

I think that they are probably the best people for it, as they are the ones who get to meet the jobseeker regularly, and discuss their case with them.

I probably rephrased that wrong. What I meant was that their job isn't to actively seek out any little reason to sanction. It is their job, to sanction, if they deem it necessary as you said, they are the best people to judge, but I would assume this would be because someone isn't listening and doesn't put any effort in to doing what their agreement says.

If you take figures of the amount of sanctions in a year, what was it, near 400k? How many of these do you think are recurring people, and what percentage would you guess these are workshy people with a valid reason, I would easily estimate about double that number are workshy. I would also be willing to bet a minority of complaints about being sanctioned are valid complaints due to mistakes (everyone makes them), but a majority are probably justifiable.

Just as an example, when I signed on earlier this year and they drew up my agreement, I was horrified that it was suggested I apply for 5 jobs per fortnight, that's all I had to do. I suggested 20 per week minimum before he spluttered, looked at me strange and told me most people at that JCP office are only required to apply for 5 per fortnight.

They really do not ask much of you. The resistance to being cooperative from so many people baffles me.

szam_

red_devil wrote: »

They arent competent. I have been given someone elses jobseekers agreement today with someone elses National Insurance number on it. They also dont give out the correct information.

You are assuming people lose their job because they are incompetent. Have you not heard of redundancy and firms cutting back. How can you assume that people are unemployed because they arent competent.

Alot of the jobsworths in the jobcentre think they can talk down to people. Some of the people they are talking too, could be managers and people who have had high powered jobs. They have actually done better than the advisors who are trying to tell them what to do.

Just an idea here, might be a bit crazy, so don't go wild, but...

Why don't you just rise above their attitude, instead of stooping to their level? If you feel you are indeed above them, as that is how it comes across from your posts, prove it.

I don't mean to sound like I'm criticizing, and you don't have to listen to anything I say, of course.

Just some food for thought... my other half often says it sounds like I talk down to her when I try to teach her something, it doesn't sound like it to me and I'm actually not intending to make it sound that way, nor am I actually talking down to her. Sometimes I wonder if people hear something the way they want to hear it, because they are too proud to want to hear it any other way. She's a proud person and given my profession, admits she sometimes feels stupid when i give her tips.

betterl8

red_devil wrote: »

Please challenge her in a keep calm way this js what i have had to do today. I was asked why i havent got a job and i said dont turn it round on me. I have refused to give access until i am sure. Please dont give in. They are on a powder trip.

I was also asked where my cv was and i said i didnt know i had to bring it. The more people who speak back to them the better it will be for all.

If I was an advisor, then someone coming into me with this attitude would be sanctioned.

If you are going to an interview with your advisor, take your CV. If you don't, how can they advise. if the ask why you lost your job, tell them, so they can advise the best course of action. Remember one pertinent fact, they have a job, you don't, they therefore are in a position to advise you on how to get one, because they have!

the more people that respect their advisors, the better the advice and the better it will be for all. the more people that argue, the more the advisors will be suspicious and try to sanction.

OP. you have been negative with what you cannot do, so a challenge. instead of saying "I cannot get there" say, " there is difficult, however all of these areas are much more accessible" Instead of "I hate numbers" say "I am more a language person, can we focus on people facing..."

AP007

betterl8 wrote: »

If I was an advisor, then someone coming into me with this attitude would be sanctioned.

If you are going to an interview with your advisor, take your CV. If you don't, how can they advise. if the ask why you lost your job, tell them, so they can advise the best course of action. Remember one pertinent fact, they have a job, you don't, they therefore are in a position to advise you on how to get one, because they have!

the more people that respect their advisors, the better the advice and the better it will be for all. the more people that argue, the more the advisors will be suspicious and try to sanction.

OP. you have been negative with what you cannot do, so a challenge. instead of saying "I cannot get there" say, " there is difficult, however all of these areas are much more accessible" Instead of "I hate numbers" say "I am more a language person, can we focus on people facing..."

Advisors ask for a copy of your CV so no need to carry one with you every time you go there.

You really think the 'advisors' are qualified in all industries and job functions?

They can only help with CV's and letter writing.

I have asked for advise and I got 'find a volunteer job then you wont be seen as being over qualified'

Chester666666

red_devil wrote: »

They arent competent. I have been given someone elses jobseekers agreement today with someone elses National Insurance number on it. They also dont give out the correct information.

You are assuming people lose their job because they are incompetent. Have you not heard of redundancy and firms cutting back. How can you assume that people are unemployed because they arent competent.

Alot of the jobsworths in the jobcentre think they can talk down to people. Some of the people they are talking too, could be managers and people who have had high powered jobs. They have actually done better than the advisors who are trying to tell them what to do.

Precisely
Just cos they work in the jobcentre doesn't mean tegu know what they are doing or that they are professional or knowledgeable

John1993_2

red_devil wrote: »

T
You are assuming people lose their job because they are incompetent..

That's not an assumption, it's a fact, some do. Are you claiming that no-one ever does?

I'm certainly not assuming that everyone who loses their job loses it for reasons of incompetence, and it's disingenuous of you to claim that I was.

To be honest, posters such as some on here, you for example, seem more likely to have been let go for attitude problems than for competency problems.

John1993_2

szam_ wrote: »

I
They really do not ask much of you. The resistance to being cooperative from so many people baffles me.

I agree. The state is providing this service for free to people unable to find a job through their own efforts. The ire and bile that some posters here give in response is shocking.