mobile speed cams

lister

carus9000 wrote: »

it has a central reservation and I entered that stretch of the road off a roundabout. as I entered the roundabout I stopped so I didn't just go through the roundabout with excess speed. and had just levelled out to what I thought was the ideal speed

No mystery to this at all. Unfortunately if you go and look with google street view, you will see that there is no dual carriageway, so speed limit 50mph for a van.

There is a section with a hill which has two lanes for a bit (each direction gets two lanes on the uphill part) with a hatched central divider, but that doesn't make a dual carriageway.

There needs to be a physical break between opposing traffic flows, such as grass, a hedge, a solid kerbed area etc., otherwise there is only one carriageway, albeit with three lanes (two in one direction and one contra).

The dual in dual carriageway doesn't refer to two lanes unfortunately. A carriageway is essentially any continuous piece of tarmacced road, so you can have multilane single carriageways and single lane dual carriageways (and both exist in reality as well as theory.

Edit:

Also, it is a good idea to stop thinking it is somehow dangerous to regularly check your speed. It is a favourite excuse given when caught, but if I can teach my learner drivers to do it safely, an experienced driver can certainly manage - it just needs practice.

My method is every 5-10 seconds follow this process: Check road ahead starting in distance, then scan back to the car, check mirrors (generally interior and right, but could be left instead in some cases), check speedo - rinse and repeat. I will never, ever be caught speeding because I don't know my speed - I look between 6 and 12 times a minute. To begin with this will be hard and you will probably keep forgetting to keep it up, but if you keep doing it, you will find you can keep it up for hours on end.

If you really find it difficult, purchase a HUD speedo from He-Man, so you don't have to look down...

Iceweasel

I don't think that just a narrow grass strip in the middle would be considered sufficient of a 'barrier'.

But exactly what 'in the eyes of the law' is considered a physical barrier?

A hedge would be debatable perhaps.

I wouldn't be confident to argue it on the basis of a grass strip.

But of course if my licence depended on it - ie number of points etc. - I might well have a go.

lister

Iceweasel wrote: »

I don't think that just a narrow grass strip in the middle would be considered sufficient of a 'barrier'.

But exactly what 'in the eyes of the law' is considered a physical barrier?

A hedge would be debatable perhaps.

I wouldn't be confident to argue it on the basis of a grass strip.

But of course if my licence depended on it - ie number of points etc. - I might well have a go.

The answer is a simple one - it is as defined in the Traffic Signs and General Direction Regulations 2002.

"dual carriageway road" means a road which comprises a central reservation and "all-purpose dual carriageway road" means a dual carriageway road which is not a motorway; "

and if we look up central reservation:

"central reservation" means -
(a) any land between the carriageways of a road comprising two carriageways; or

(b) any permanent work (other than a traffic island) in the carriageway of a road,

which separates the carriageway or, as the case may be, the part of the carriageway which is to be used by traffic moving in one direction from the carriageway or part of the carriageway which is to be used (whether at all times or at particular times only) by traffic moving in the other direction; "

Ergo a grass strip is a central res, a hedge is a central res, a crash barrier counts as a central res, but white lines, hatchings etc. do not count.

Hoof_Hearted

I think this is pretty clear that you were doing 61 in a 50 limit. This is over the driver awareness limit. which explains why it wasn't offered.

Sooler

carus9000 wrote: »

and sooler no drive awareness option

http://www.dorset.police.uk/default.aspx?page=602

Driver Awareness Scheme (DAS) Speed Thresholds

The table below sets out the speed thresholds at which you may be offered a place on the Driver Awareness Scheme (DAS).
Please note that the offer of a DAS course is a decision made by the DAS office on behalf of Dorset Police. Further details can be found in the DAS Terms and Conditions by following this link >

Speed Limit / Threshold for DAS
30 / 36mph - 42mph
40 / 47mph - 53mph
50 / 58mph - 64mph
60 / 69mph - 75mph
70 / 80mph - 86mph

spacey2012

There is no argument to it, from a overhead view a dual carriageway is two separate strips of tarmac with a void in-between, if it is one strip of tarmac with lanes painted on it is a single carriageway.
On single carriage ways commercial vans can only do 50 and anyone who has drove a transit knows that if you have to hit the brakes hard, they lose it badly.

Aretnap

Practice varies between police forces, but with the majority get the offer of a speed awareness course after you reply to the NIP naming yourself as the driver rather than with the original NIP.

Iceweasel

This has been a very informative thread for me so far.

I'm now clear on the definition of dual carriageway.

That info from Dorset Police shows that the DAS office could consider an awareness course for speeds up to 64mph in a 50 limit.

I would never have thought that exceeding the limit by that much could be included in the possibilities.

I'll bet they don't offer many though.

If you were within the limits could you ask for a DAS if they didn't offer you one?

Aretnap

Iceweasel wrote: »

That info from Dorset Police shows that the DAS office could consider an awareness course for speeds up to 64mph in a 50 limit.

I would never have thought that exceeding the limit by that much could be included in the possibilities.

I'll bet they don't offer many though.

If you were within the limits could you ask for a DAS if they didn't offer you one?

Offering courses at up to 10%+9 has been the norm since 2011 (linky - since then more forces have adopted it).

Rather than not offering many the police are very keen for people to do these courses - partly because they're alleged to be more effective at changing driver's behaviour than points are, and partly because profit from them is used to fund camera enforcement, making the whole area of policing self financing. (Whether that's a good thing is another question, but the bean counters certainly like it).

Generally the only reasons the OP wouldn;t be offered a course would be if he's already done one in the last 3 years, if he takes too long to name himself as the driver and misses the deadline, or possibly if they hadn't arranged enough capacity and the local courses were oversubscribed (the last only for a force like Dorset which isn't in the national scheme and doesn't give you the option of doing a course in another county).

Steve059

Don't forget that more and more insurance companies are now asking about speed awareness courses and treating them the same as penalty points and convictions.