Will Wireless Boiler Controls avoid tripping electrics ?

MiaB

This is quite a convoluted problem which I will try and condense without losing important info

Potterton Combi Boiler (about 10 years old ) regularly serviced through British gas Homecare 400 contract ( i'll add here that elderly Dad didn't realise this covered home electrics etc, hence next point!)..

Electrics (35 years old, but new (5years) fuse box tripped (so lost sockets on ground floor, tvs, kitchen appliances etc and heating) and we couldn't untrip the circuit switch, it wouldn't go back up - Dad called an electrician

He replaced some sockets and a wire that had seemed to have been chewed through my mice (we are having a mouse problem), but said it looked like there was still a problem in the boiler and as he wasn't Gas Safe certified, and didn't want to invalidate our insurance, suggested we call them.

BG arrived and replaced some boiler parts, said all ok.
As soon as heating came back on the next day, it tripped again.
Different BG engineer turns up, this time to look at electrics. Replaces some bits, and says all fine now.
Works ok for a day then trips again.
I raise merry hell with BG, as Mum is disabled/bedbound and after 2 days with no hot water or central heating things becoming very distressing.

BG guy who is boiler and electrics trained says its the main switch/controls, does a temporary fix and comes back the next day to fit new switch and timer (that was last week).

Trips again last night and after an hour of our own dabbling about we work out that if we switch the boiler off at the wall switch then then we can untrip the circuit switch.

Now to the crux of my question - BG have reappeared today and said that we must have more rodent damage somewhere along the wiring from the boiler switch up to the tank ( this is a 3 storey house) - which could be anywhere. Our options are to start digging out walls / skirtings / floorboards to check and rewire or to go for a "wireless boiler solution".

I won't go into the arguments about whether we should be covered or not according to the policy : we are going round in circles. My ultimate question is this :

The BG engineer states that by getting the boiler to bypass the electric circuit it will remove the problem without the need for rewiring and will not affect any of the other circuits. They will put a wireless receiver on a motorised valve in the airing cupboard upstairs and the boiler downstairs. The hot water will be controlled by the programme switch on the wireless control downstairs and the central heating by the room thermostat in the living room. It completely bypassed the electrics.

Is this correct ?

If we have to move Mum n Dad out to rewire then I guess we will have to, but his solution seems to make much more sense : it's just that I can't believe it will bypass all the electrics ?

Ive tried googling but am just getting info on the wireless units, not the mechanics in respect of installtion/ implications on wiring

All info / advice / suggestions appreciated.

Maria.

Myser

MiaB wrote: »

Our options are to start digging out walls / skirtings / floorboards to check and rewire or to go for a "wireless boiler solution".

You can't have a completely wireless boiler - it requires electricity from somewhere to power the internal components.

The BG person is talking about running the controls wirelessly - that is a separate thing.

However, since you have identified that the MCB (Mini Circuit-Breaker) doesn't trip when the boiler isolation switch is off, the problem probably lies with the electrical feed to the boiler.

Have they carried out an Insulation Resistance check on the wiring for all the controls and deduced that one of them was faulty?

If BG have replaced the suspect electrical parts within the boiler, I think you need a professional electrician here to find the cause of the problem.

MiaB

Myser wrote: »

If BG have replaced the suspect electrical parts within the boiler, I think you need a professional electrician here to find the cause of the problem.

When I say BG came out we have had both a boiler specialist, an electric specialist, and someone who is certified for both : our cover is for boiler and home electrics and this seems to cause them a problem when allocating who to do the work !

Our independant engineer confirmed it was seemed to be a problem with the electrical feed to the boiler.

We have basically had most internal parts replaced over these visits - PCB, Pump, Valves, Thermostat, wiring into and out of sockets, plus new sockets.

They are returning Thursday to try and find the faulty wiring ( which I assume is the resistance checking) to avoid us going for major disruption, then then if they can't find/fix the specific cables plan to return Fri to do the wireless thingy ( we cant have mum without hot water any longer than that). I am 120 miles away and Dad is not very good with memory / explanation so I am reliant on 2nd hand accounts and the odd chat with the engineer via mobile when they are happy to do this.

Myser

An Insulation Resistance test should confirm if there is a problem with the wiring feed to the boiler. It could even be a faulty isolation switch. As a temporary measure, they could try plugging the boiler into another circuit fed by a different MCB.

It seems as though the wireless option is a quick fix for them however, in the long run it could lead to other issues.

If you know the specific areas where the rodents frequent, you can try and run the cables in some conduit - sealing both ends.

Mr_Ted

Everyone seems to be under the illusion that when you talk about "Wireless controls" that its is totally independent of Electricity :eek:

It IS NOT :eek:

Whilst the actual Thermostat/controller is "WIRELESS" it has to have a RECEIVER, which ISN'T the term wireless in this instance relates as in the way a "Wireless/RADIO" works nothing whatsoever to do with Electricity or cables, although as in "PORTABLE RADIO" the transmitter/thermostat control, has no hard wired 240v cabling, BUT also, as in "PORTABLE RADIO" it HAS to have a power source which is by Batteries

The "Receiver" HAS to be hard wired 240v where IT controls the boiler and associated valves from the information "Transmitted" from the thermostat/controller!

Basically the term "wireless" is an incorrect defintion, they are actually "Radio Frequency controls" requiring an RF Transmitter and an RF Receiver

MoneyMate

Hi Myser, Sorry to hear about this Rodent problem, almost certainly until you get these pests removed your problems will continue with all electrical equipment not to mention the safety aspect.

MiaB

The "Receiver" HAS to be hard wired 240v where IT controls the boiler and associated valves from the information "Transmitted" from the thermostat/controller!

Thanks MrTed.
So are you saying the problem will still persist then if, as 4 different engineers suspect, the problem lies with the electrical feed to the boiler tripping the MCB?

MiaB

Thanks MoneyMate - Myser was ( very helpfully) replying to my thread. It is we who have the rodent problem.
Yes, we realise this needs to be sorted and we are in the process of doing so.
However, I want to make sure that another week on, and a " super wireless solution" actually resolves our issue, at least for the short term, without causing further problems.

MiaB

Myser wrote: »

An Insulation Resistance test should confirm if there is a problem with the wiring feed to the boiler. It could even be a faulty isolation switch. As a temporary measure, they could try plugging the boiler into another circuit fed by a different MCB.

It seems as though the wireless option is a quick fix for them however, in the long run it could lead to other issues.

If you know the specific areas where the rodents frequent, you can try and run the cables in some conduit - sealing both ends.

Thanks for the follow up Myser.
I will check on Thursday that they have looked at the Isolation switch , they can't plug into another circuit on the MCB to the best of my knowledge.
We have had the cables in the (most suspected) area replaced and sealed counduit at ends.

Quiet_Spark

MiaB wrote: »

Thanks MrTed.
So are you saying the problem will still persist then if, as 4 different engineers suspect, the problem lies with the electrical feed to the boiler tripping the MCB?

If the problem is the supply to the boiler, then the only way you will cure it is to replace that supply with a new one..

pogg000

does your electrican have a megga meter?