My local dog training class doesn't want us.

Person_one · 10 November 2013 at 1:52AM

elsien wrote: »

After this mornings walk. I think we need to set up some stooge.squirrels as well. A fun time was not had by all, but one of us was thoroughly enjoying himself.

Oh I just let mine chase them, I know there's no danger of a catch, and at this time of year they're everywhere so its a lost battle before you start.

It amuses me that one is completely unable to figure out what's happened when they run up trees, just stands there looking completely baffled as if it had disappeared into thin air. :rotfl:

Wellyboots6 · 10 November 2013 at 10:17AM

Yeah quite a way from Essex I'm afraid

I struggle with finding walking buddies, as to meet LS when he is on his lead I can well understand you would not want your pooch associating with such a delinquent!

The friends he does have to play with, he has met them all off-lead first so he got to know they aren't a threat, and then he is happy to be on his lead around them. Trouble is, at a dog class you can't let them all off to sniff first, and so he has never actually 'met' anyone in his class and still sees them all as stranger danger.

meritaten · 10 November 2013 at 9:42PM

elsien wrote: »

He's 2 -3. No aggression whatsoever, just exuberance.
We have found one or two dogs who will play but most of the owners take one look and because he's an ebt staffie cross just assume he's going to eat their dogs and do a big detour. And those dogs that do say hello get fed up with being jumped on and either run off or growl and have a go. At which point the owners pull them away quick. Which doesn't help as he doesn't seem to learn so he's not learning any sensible behaviour from them.

I sort of wanted him to be in an environment where he would have to get used to being around other dogs without getting the chance to be a complete plank.

I hadn't thought of the group walks, I might look and see if there are any I could find out more about.

The one to one sessions seemed to involve initially taking gitdog for a walk and if we came across other dogs seeing what happened and taking it from there. Which just seemed a bit too hit and miss for me, to be honest.

er - isn't that called 'taking the dog for a walk'? why should you pay for that?

hun - gitdog is still very young - I would say staffies mature at about 3 years old and depending on the X it could be later. just keep working as you have done and work on distraction when other dogs are around and soon he will be seeing other dogs as 'part of the scenery'!
I dunno, but any dog out of the norm always seems to be turned down for 'training lessons' and offered 1-1! wonder why?

its just a thought but do you have those lessons where the dogs do obstacle courses? might teach him to 'focus' and he would have fun! cos he is a 'fun loving dawg' isn't he?

krlyr · 10 November 2013 at 9:49PM

meritaten wrote: »

I dunno, but any dog out of the norm always seems to be turned down for 'training lessons' and offered 1-1! wonder why?

I don't see any issue with that. As owner of a reactive dog, I understand that classes may not always be the best option for my dog. In Casper's case, I could see in the assessment the trainer did (in her own time, for free, knowing she may not get a customer out of it!) that Casper was far too focussed on her stooge dog. He wouldn't have been able to concentrate in the class, and therefore he wouldn't learn very much - so I'd be wasting my money.

And if I was owner of a non-reactive dog, well, if I'm paying for a class then I'm not sure I'd want that class disrupted by a reactive dog barking, the risk of a scrap, and the trainer having to keep half their focus on said dog instead of the remaining paying customers.

That's not to say a dog with issues couldn't join a class eventually - I know several owners of reactive dogs/dogs with issues that have managed to work to a point where they can join classes, with careful management (e.g. outdoor classes where they can create distance, using longlines to keep the dog secure, etc.) and their trainers have all been happy to work with them to reach that point. But it doesn't come overnight, hence the need for one-to-one training to reach that stage.

meritaten · 10 November 2013 at 10:09PM

so what is the point of 'obedience classes' if only obedient dogs attend? so the owners can all congratulate themselves on having 'obedient' dogs?

elsien - it looks like you are on your own! train gitdog YOUR way with perhaps a little advice from tinternet!

You would probably have laughed YOUR socks off at some of the 'disastrous' training sessions with my dogs.
just to make you laugh - before I found out my springer responded to 'come here' and then me running AWAY from her - I spent a merry afternoon chasing her around a local pond - I ran miles and the dam dog would not let me catch her! much to the amusement of the families picnic-ing there at the time!

Person_one · 10 November 2013 at 10:43PM

I've been to a training class where a very dog aggressive dogs showed up. I felt for the owners, but there was no way it was appropriate for them to be in the group session.

My dog and most of the others there needed a bit of training and socialising, walking to heel, recall, a solid stay, that kind of thing. This dog needed really intensive work, and was a danger to the others in an enclosed space like the training ring. I do hope they got the right help, but I won't lie, I'm glad it wasn't at the expense of my dog and my bank balance!

krlyr · 10 November 2013 at 10:51PM

I don't class reactivity or aggression as disobedient behaviour though. It's not a case of the dog misbehaving, it's an issue - usually fear-related - that needs to be addressed behaviourally. It's not the same as teaching a down-stay or a recall, it's about addressing the dog's emotional response. Trying to do that in a limited space with multiple dogs to focus on is a difficult task for a trainer, hence one-to-one sessions being the more useful option in most cases.

Like above, I've been in a group class with an aggressive dog, and have to say I don't think it was suitable. We all had to spend so much time making sure we kept a good distance from him, so trying to teach heel yet not being able to stop or change direction because you're aware the aggressive dog is behind you, making sure your dog doesn't run over to it when practicing recall etc. did affect the class IMO, especially as it was an indoor class with limited space. I wouldn't want to put my dog in that position again, and knowing what I know now, I would leave a class that allowed it. And as owner of a reactive dog, I wouldn't want to inflict those kind of stress levels on my dog either by taking him to a class if it wasn't suitable.

Wellyboots6 · 11 November 2013 at 9:23AM

The class I go to is an agility class, but the trainer knows I am not really there for the agility.

I keep LS a good distance away from the other dogs, and we are gradually moving closer as his confidence improves.

As he is so noisy when he gets going, the trainer uses it as a distraction for the other dogs. She says that when they are competing they are likely to come across noisy dogs, horses, people with umbrellas etc and if they can get practice of at least a little bit of those distractions in a safe, non-competitive environment then it helps.

She has also used him as a demonstration of how to approach a dog-reactive dog, as there are likely to be highly strung dog-reactive dogs at competitions, and also when people are just out walking their dogs.

We have done the one-to-ones and my behaviourist has said that there isn't much else that can be done now one-to-one as it is now down to a case of practice and time.

I feel better doing my practice in a class environment as everyone is aware of LS issues, aware of how to react to him if he throws a paddy to keep everyone safe, and my behaviourist is also there (teaching another class) so I can have a quick chat with her before/after class.

I think there are benefits to both one-to-ones and classes and its just going to be down to your dog and also the class you go to.

There have been open discussions about his impact on the rest of the class, and people are quite happy to ask me to keep him out of the way if they are practicing a certain exercise. Quite a few of them have also worked with the same behaviourist for dog-reactivity issues and so know what it is like, and it gives me confidence that if they have managed it then eventually so will I!

krlyr · 11 November 2013 at 10:03AM

I think the set up of agility classes does make it easier - most of the people I know with reactive dogs who do group classes go to agility ones. Being outside venues usually, there's room to space the dogs out, plenty of 'escape routes' rather than one or two doors, the trainer tends to run one dog and owner through the course at a time so his attention isn't split between every owner and keeping check on the reactive dog and so on. Come the reactive dog's turn, it has to focus on all the equipment so a good exercise to teach it not to eyeball other dogs and so on too, unlike a class where it may be following another dog for heelwork, sitting opposite several in sit-stays and so on. And like you say, the atmosphere is a bit different than a standard class.

elsien · 11 November 2013 at 9:19PM

Well I've found another group thanks to krlyr's link, and they say it's a small group in a large industrial unit with lots of space so they're happy for me to go along for the first week and assess whether we think it's likely to work or not. If not, they have some calm and sensible stooge dogs we can do some one to one work with. The first session is in a couple of weeks, so all I need to do now is try to swap shifts so I can get there. Watch this space!