Orange non direct debit charges

Marcgold

I feel strongly enough to put a post on here to see if others have the same grievances
Sorry it's a long thread
I have for some time tried to take on orange re their charge if you pay by any other means than DD
I also have an EE account ( orange now part of EE )
On the back of my EE invoice it states " if paid by DD , bank transfer or Internet banking there is no charge " After many frustrating phone calls I managed to get EE to agree its printed on the invoice ( I was told it shouldn't be there and would be removed ) after several months its still there lol
The upshot is I pay by bank transfer so get no charges at last
As Orange are part of EE I tried to get the same without success ggggrrrr
I recently got a tex saying Orange has now adopted more of the EE policy's so I again tried to get my charge removed The person I spoke to said " its not general policy but as I had it on EE she felt I should have the same on orange " so set it up
But that lasted for couple months till their system changed it
I was pretty annoyed so after going through normal routes without getting anywhere I emailed the chairman
As usual I got a call from their executive office telling me the EE policy was adopted from T Mobile ( also owned by EE ) but Orange have no intention of changing their policy
How many out there have the same issue as I believe Orange WILL change if enough complain

macman

What's your issue with paying by DD, which is what the vast majority of mobile contract holders do?
If it ever goes wrong, you have the safety of your bank's DD guarantee.

Kayak10

macman wrote: »

What's your issue with paying by DD, which is what the vast majority of mobile contract holders do?
If it ever goes wrong, you have the safety of your bank's DD guarantee.

I have personal reasons why I do not use DD's and I am NOT trying to get a " free lunch " I just feel strongly enough to believe this sort of thing should be uniform across the whole group after all as with DD's a bank transfer means no human input so no cost to orange so why should it mean a cost to the customer
I'm hoping others have the same complaint then if enough contact orange then just may be they will bring that policy in line with their EE policy
If anyone out there wants to complain use the following email as it normally gets results Being the CEO's email address lol
olaf.swantee@ee.co.uk

Mrs_Ryan

I don't get charged but the contract isn't in my name and after Orange set up the DD wrongly on my brother's account 4 times in a row and had to pay him compo 4 months in a row they agreed to waive the charges for me to pay by debit card every month. They offered me a DD but I said 'not on your nelly, on your bike' or words to that effect

Techhead_2

Kayak10 wrote: »

I have personal reasons why I do not use DD's and I am NOT trying to get a " free lunch " I just feel strongly enough to believe this sort of thing should be uniform across the whole group after all as with DD's a bank transfer means no human input so no cost to orange so why should it mean a cost to the customer
I'm hoping others have the same complaint then if enough contact orange then just may be they will bring that policy in line with their EE policy
If anyone out there wants to complain use the following email as it normally gets results Being the CEO's email address lol
olaf.swantee@ee.co.uk

How do you know there is no extra cost involved in a bank transfer?

Do you not realise that the charges for receiving a bank transfer and making a direct debit request are different? Can you not see that there is also a difference in processes?

You seem to be basing your argument on the assumption that the amount of human involvement is the same and the cost is the same. Yet that assumption is unfounded.

You are also not understanding that the business models for EE, T-Mobile and Orange are different.

Finally, you committed to the contract. The time to decide whether you approve of the charges was before you signed up. If it's significant enough that have the time to start a campaign then why didn't you check it out before taking out the contract or renewing.

NFH

Techhead wrote: »

How do you know there is no extra cost involved in a bank transfer?

Most small business bank accounts do not charge for receiving bank transfers from within the UK. Large businesses negotiate lower bank charges than those on small business accounts. A mobile network will certainly not pay any bank charges to receive a bank transfer.

Techhead wrote: »

Finally, you committed to the contract. The time to decide whether you approve of the charges was before you signed up.

Not true. Regulation 10(a) of the Consumer Rights (Payment Surcharges) Regulations 2012 makes such a contract term unenforceable where the surcharge exceeds the cost to the business. This applies to any contract started since 6th April 2013.

NFH

macman wrote: »

What's your issue with paying by DD, which is what the vast majority of mobile contract holders do?
If it ever goes wrong, you have the safety of your bank's DD guarantee.

The problem with direct debits is that it gives a business the ability to take amounts from a bank account without the prior consent of the account holder. Although any errors can be corrected after the event, it is much more difficult to prevent the error before the event. It is reasonable to pay by bank transfer instead, which costs a business the same, if not less, than direct debit, and which gives the consumer full control of the payment.

Oli.s

There may not be a cost for the actual transfer, but I suspect somewhere along the line orange will have a staff cost in the tallying of bank transfer recieved against customer accounts. Direct debit is automatic, bank transfer requires manual input at your end so I suspect it requires some manual input at their end too.

You used to be able to pay your bill in store and have the £3 refunded, don't know if you still can.

NFH

Oli.s wrote: »

There may not be a cost for the actual transfer, but I suspect somewhere along the line orange will have a staff cost in the tallying of bank transfer recieved against customer accounts. Direct debit is automatic, bank transfer requires manual input at your end so I suspect it requires some manual input at their end too.

No, large businesses automate the process to allocate received bank transfers to customers. The business's system reads the payee reference on the bank transaction (e.g. the customer number) and allocates the payment to the customer. Such a process is simpler than direct debit, given that the latter requires transaction data to be sent to the bank as well as received.

However, your comment does remind of a few years ago when a manual card payment on Orange's web site appeared to generate a manual process behind the scenes. A number of errors that occurred suggested to me that there was a human element to the transaction (e.g. amounts being changed upon re-keying). Orange appear to have automated this process now.

Orange does not surcharge its business customers for paying by continuous payment authority to a credit card.

Techhead_2

NFH wrote: »

Most small business bank accounts do not charge for receiving bank transfers from within the UK. Large businesses negotiate lower bank charges than those on small business accounts. A mobile network will certainly not pay any bank charges to receive a bank transfer.


Not true. Regulation 10(a) of the Consumer Rights (Payment Surcharges) Regulations 2012 makes such a contract term unenforceable where the surcharge exceeds the cost to the business. This applies to any contract started since 6th April 2013.

You first point is an unfounded assertion based on extrapolation (put less politely - guesswork)

Your second point misses my point completely. Is it sensible to take out a contract and then spend considerable effort trying to change the terms. Why not check beforehand that you are happy?

NFH

Techhead wrote: »

Your second point misses my point completely. Is it sensible to take out a contract and then spend considerable effort trying to change the terms. Why not check beforehand that you are happy?

Because almost all the networks are breaching the Consumer Rights (Payment Surcharges) Regulations 2012, which governs contracts started since 6th April 2013. Therefore a consumer has no choice between networks on these unlawful surcharges. That is why Regulation 10(a) was included - so that a consumer can take out a contract in the knowledge that such a contract term is unenforceable.