For resident parents with contact orders, how do you figure out Xmas contact?

alwaysskint96

duchy wrote: »

I'd take the early morning wake up and present opening and then wave them off to their Dad's for dinner-that way you both get to see a bit of their Christmas magic

Not everyone does early morning present opening. My kids have never opened presents until after dinner.

When i was a kid we lived with our dad, Spent morning and lunch with him then after lunch went to Mum and Stepdads house for presents and tea. Loved it, many of my friends complained of being bored Xmas afternoon, we didnt need to worry about that as we had 2 Xmas days in one

duchy

alwaysskint96 wrote: »

Not everyone does early morning present opening. My kids have never opened presents until after dinner.

When i was a kid we lived with our dad, Spent morning and lunch with him then after lunch went to Mum and Stepdads house for presents and tea. Loved it, many of my friends complained of being bored Xmas afternoon, we didnt need to worry about that as we had 2 Xmas days in one

So you never opened presents with your Dad in the morning ? Not that it matters as we're not talking about you (even in my not divorced childhood home we opened one present in the morning and all the other presents after lunch -but it's different strokes for different folks) but the OP who is trying to find the right balance for HER situation which if they've recently gone back to court and Dad had access reduced is probably a bit volatile anyway.

The basic "needs" are
Mum wants some of Christmas day
Dad wants some of Christmas day
Mum has an invitation where dinner is about four (kids are welcome but don't have to be there)

So if Mum has the children til after diinner at home -she cooks a full Christmas dinner -and then goes out and eats another one !!

Or she goes to new partners house for the full day with kids and Dad sees them another day. (Dad loses out)

Or Dad has them for the full day and Mum goes to new partner's for the day alone (Mum loses out)

Or Mum has the kids til about one Dad picks them up and no dinner is cooked at home and kids have dinner with Dad (My original suggestion and one where everyone gets what they want to a degree)

In some ways it is fortunate the kids are both very young as they won't "miss" the ingrained traditions of "always done it another way"

In the OP's shoes and bearing in mind that Dad is still bruised over access and is probably feeling Mum has all the control (which realistically she does as there is no order for holidays) I'd probably offer one whole extra day like Boxing day if he wants to "move" Christmas day and the pick them up for lunch and return Boxing day morning as the alternative so he feels he has some choices. Ultimately they have many more Christmases to negotiate in the future so setting the tone now early, one with fairness is likely to pay off in later years.

FBaby

It is difficult to advise without knowing a bit more of the background. Why is the judge supporting him not having more access than 2 days in a row? It is less than the norm when nrps would get 1/2 of holiday time (whether by cutting the week or having one holiday week whilst other parent has another week).

There must be a reason why a judge would not allow this. What it is? If there are issues with the children staying with their dad, then that makes the answer different. Do the kids like to go to their dad or do they have to be forced?

thorsoak

I remember your previous threads on the domineering/take over tactics of your ex.

I think your first idea is quite good - and often, first thoughts are the best thoughts!

SunshineButterfly

I do not want to fully go into past court cases and issues, but a few of my past threads may have more information on this. It was basically described by the judge as emotional abuse, and was said that it is long periods of time with their father that is having the most emotionally negative impact on the children.
The children do enjoy their time with their father and do want to see him often. I do want them to see their dad as much as they want, but at the same time I want to protect them from any further emotional impact, as since they have had limited contact with their father their behaviour and happiness has improved massively and they seem much more settled and secure now. I already allow their father more contact than is in the contact order, but it is monitored so that if the children start to revert back to the sufferings they were going through I can revert to the contact order and give them more time to settle.

Shelldean

let them go to his xmas eve and collect them at about 3ish xmas day.
The opposite of what happened last yr, plus it will allow them to be with you and new partner for that family meal?

But basically you said you had them till 4pm xmas day last yr then dad had them, so swap that?

squashy

What has been utterly hearbreaking in our house is that not once have my stepchildren been for more than 90 minutes on Christmas day. They are both grown up at uni now and still nothing has changed as the kids don't want to rock the boat with their mum.

To me a fair system would be, one parent has Christmas Morning and one has Dinner, alternating each year. We have sadly never had any but instead have had no choice but to stick to mid morning times for pickup and drop-off.

Outside of this they have always come for a few hours on Christmas eve and then again between Christmas and New Year for 4 days.

We will invite them for dinner again this year but not holding out much hope!

duchy

Surely a fair system is the child spending Christmas where they want to and parents wishes ideally come second if the child is old enough to choose . Frankly once they get to a certain age there is no points insisting with a stubborn teen.

I always feel a bit sorry for kids who just want to stay put to play with their presents who can't as they need to be shared out. I do see the advantage in having two Christmas days one in each home,,,after all lots of families celebrate weeks early or late if for example a parent is been posted to Afganistan to give a topical example .

As for adult children they have free choice and may just like their Christmas traditions and not want to change them. To be heartbroken over adult children not coming to Christmas dinner does sound a bit OTT though especially as they've never done it and do visit other days over the holiday...... Plenty of uni age kids choose not to go home for Christmas at all.

Jojo_the_Tightfisted

squashy wrote: »

What has been utterly hearbreaking in our house is that not once have my stepchildren been for more than 90 minutes on Christmas day. They are both grown up at uni now and still nothing has changed as the kids don't want to rock the boat with their mum.

To me a fair system would be, one parent has Christmas Morning and one has Dinner, alternating each year. We have sadly never had any but instead have had no choice but to stick to mid morning times for pickup and drop-off.

Outside of this they have always come for a few hours on Christmas eve and then again between Christmas and New Year for 4 days.

We will invite them for dinner again this year but not holding out much hope!

In theory, yes it sounds fair. In practice, it often ends up with the other parent hammering on the door by 10am claiming that morning started at 5.

My position was that I would have Xmas eve and the morning then call the ex sometime in the afternoon for extra contact that was outside the order, which would last until the new year. Because that was more than allowed for in the order, any resentment over not having Christmas Eve (mainly because it was important to me - his side didn't start Xmas day until 6pm in terms of gifts or dinner, and often postponed the whole thing until other relatives could visit - one year the presents were unopened until New Year's Eve because somebody had visited other family until then) was tempered by the fact I had always called and allowed extra each preceding year.


But had I suggested discussing it in advance - oh no, that wouldn't have been enough. So I didn't. The RO said nothing about Xmas day, so it was up to me to decide.

squashy

duchy wrote: »

To be heartbroken over adult children not coming to Christmas dinner does sound a bit OTT though especially as they've never done it and do visit other days over the holiday...... Plenty of uni age kids choose not to go home for Christmas at all.

Oh it isn't quite as heartbreaking these days as we are very used to it after 16 years but it was very hard for DH to enjoy the christmas traditions when they were 2 and 4. And if you can call a grown man reduced to tears heartbreaking then there you go.