O2 changing inclusive minutes - Removing some 07 numbers from allowance

dazleech

Just got a SMS from O2:-

From 4 December, we're removing some 07 numbers from your inclusive minutes. See more at http://www.o2.co.uk/support/generalhelp/howdoi/ngnchange

My question is, Does this constitute a change in Terms and Conditions that could mean that I can escape my contract?

NFH

dazleech wrote: »

My question is, Does this constitute a change in Terms and Conditions that could mean that I can escape my contract?

Probably only if you call these numbers a lot and your previous bills show this.

mjgreen60

Just had a similar text from O2 but stating that calls to Jersey Guernsey and the Isle of Man would no longer be included. Most of my family live in the Isle of Man and as such I call there very frequently. Where would I stand with regards to change of T&Cs in my contract? Only took out the contract a few weeks ago and would have changed providers if I knew this would be the case!

redux

I suspect rates to Channel Island and Isle of Man mobiles will have seen some decreases in wholesale rates, like other countries, so I'm surprised they've taken this step now

There are some misidentifications on the list, if they are described as non-mobile and call forwarding services.

I have two SIM cards which they now describe as non-mobile services, and on the other hand I have two VoIP accounts with numbers which have not been removed from inclusive.

NFH

It is absurd that UK networks' inclusive minutes to mobiles apply only to calls to UK mobile numbers. O2 Slovakia for example includes calls to mobiles anywhere in the EU. This kind of unreasonable cross-border surcharge is planned to be outlawed by the European Commission. Although the Channel Islands and Isle of Man are not in the EU (or UK), it's the same problem.

mjgreen60

Just as a little update. Just found the following in the O2 "latest pay monthly mobile agreement" - available at http://www.o2.co.uk/termsandconditions/mobile/our-latest-pay-monthly-mobile-agreement

5.3 You can end this Agreement without having to pay the Monthly Subscription Charges up to the end of any Minimum Period you have left, if: (a) we notify you of an increase to your Monthly Subscription Charges by more than the published Retail Price Index (RPI) annual inflation rate at the date we announce the applicable price increase; or (b) we increase any of our Charges (apart from for Additional Services) in a way that such increase would have increased your total bill for the immediately previous month by more than 10% (if the increase(s) had applied for the whole of that month).

Most important part being that if any increases they put in place would have increased your previous months bill by more than 10% then you can end the agreement early. Just looked at my last 2 months bills. 2 months ago it would have gone up by about £50 and last month by about £13 so think I will be contacting O2 ASAP!!

redux

NFH wrote: »

It is absurd that UK networks' inclusive minutes to mobiles apply only to calls to UK mobile numbers. O2 Slovakia for example includes calls to mobiles anywhere in the EU. This kind of unreasonable cross-border surcharge is planned to be outlawed by the European Commission. Although the Channel Islands and Isle of Man are not in the EU (or UK), it's the same problem.

Although they are not in the EU, their regulators are taking the same measures to decrease wholesale rates.

For Guernsey and Jersey, the rate to mobiles is currently 4.11 pence a minute, which is about what it was here 3 years ago, and certainly not as vast as some discussions of this subject assert. It appears that although they want further decreases they may have recently extended that rate for another year.

To Guernsey and Jersey landlines, rates are just below half a penny a minute, about double UK landlines (which I believe will increase slightly), and a bit cheaper than UK mobiles, so it's clearly quite ridiculous and unsupportable to claim these are too expensive to be included.

For Isle of Man mobiles, I just found a document from the regulator which says their decision is that wholesale mobile rates will fall to 1.23 pence a minute [it's currently about 7 pence] and the document consults on a range of proposals for the glide path down towards that. They base this on an average of 9 territories, of which Channel Islands is the only rate over a penny a minute, so there is presumably scope for this to reduce more.

So basically, in 2 or 3 years' time IoM mobile rates will very likely be at most half a penny more than UK mobiles, for which O2 may still be claiming to need to charge 35 pence, and their currently incipient mark-up is a factor of over 8.

NFH

mjgreen60 wrote: »

Most important part being that if any increases they put in place would have increased your previous months bill by more than 10% then you can end the agreement early. Just looked at my last 2 months bills. 2 months ago it would have gone up by about £50 and last month by about £13 so think I will be contacting O2 ASAP!!

Then you have a very good case indeed. Please keep us posted on the outcome.

Frozen_up_north

mjgreen60 wrote: »

Just had a similar text from O2 but stating that calls to Jersey Guernsey and the Isle of Man would no longer be included. Most of my family live in the Isle of Man and as such I call there very frequently. Where would I stand with regards to change of T&Cs in my contract? Only took out the contract a few weeks ago and would have changed providers if I knew this would be the case!

Get your family to use Skype, iPhone's "Facetime" or similar free VOIP services to call each other for free. Problem solved.

NFH

Frozen_up_north wrote: »

Get your family to use Skype, iPhone's "Facetime" or similar free VOIP services to call each other for free. Problem solved.

I use these services within the UK instead of my inclusive minutes because the call quality is better, particularly on Viber. However, this doesn't work for scenarios where the data connection is poor for one of the two parties, in which case it is reasonable to expect to be able to make a conventional mobile call without a cross-border surcharge.

Frozen_up_north

NFH wrote: »

I use these services within the UK instead of my inclusive minutes because the call quality is better, particularly on Viber. However, this doesn't work for scenarios where the data connection is poor for one of the two parties, in which case it is reasonable to expect to be able to make a conventional mobile call without a cross-border surcharge.

Fair point, but the surcharge is here and now, and will be until the EU sort out the greedy networks who charge each other and pass the cost onto us.