Grangemouth dispute: Ineos says petrochemical plant will close

Thrugelmir

MFW_ASAP wrote: »

The employees and unions have agreed to a 3 year pay freeze and 'modern' pension scheme (probably a money purchase). I can't see how the government can keep skirting the issue of public sector final salary pensions when yet another private sector one closes because they are unsustainable.

Employers cannot afford them, neither can/should the taxpayer.

Already are being addressed. Employee contributions have risen considerably. Civil Service scheme gets major revision in 2015.

Being heavily unionised results in every detail having to be negotiated.

Thrugelmir

StevieJ wrote: »

Remind me, where did I write that it was a game? a tactic for subduing the unions/workforce is not a game.

Would you invest £300 million into a business if you had a work force that would walk out at the slightest excuse.

StevieJ

Thrugelmir wrote: »

Would you invest £300 million into a business if you had a work force that would walk out at the slightest excuse.

Not sure where you are coming from, as I said it wasn't a game.

MFW_ASAP

Thrugelmir wrote: »

Already are being addressed. Employee contributions have risen considerably. Civil Service scheme gets major revision in 2015.

Being heavily unionised results in every detail having to be negotiated.

That's not addressing the problem, that's just tinkering around the edges. The problem is the huge liability final salaries place on the employer (and the country). All of the investment risk is placed with the employer, none on the employee. Companies and governments are not investment houses or pension providers, they should just pay a portion of the employee's salary into a pension pot controlled by the employee and that's that.

molerat

I think there will soon be a vacancy at UNITE Scotland if anyone is interested

On the news this evening Pat Rafferty looked a broken man, stuttering away, far different to the confident interviews he was giving when he thought he held all the aces.

molerat

Separated at birth ?

Thrugelmir

MFW_ASAP wrote: »

That's not addressing the problem, that's just tinkering around the edges.

Patience, takes time to address complex issues. The real impact will be felt once public sector employees are TUPED into the private sector. Then the savings will really kick in. There's plenty going on, with a long term view.

Tip of the iceberg.

DWP, Defra and Environment Agency to outsource to Steria -

http://www.information-age.com/it-management/outsourcing-and-supplier-management/123457345/dwp--defra-and-environment-agency-to-outsource-to-steria

molerat

One point of the agreement that is not being mentioned by many of the news channels is that there will be no full time union convenors on site, a very big move for a large heavily unionised site. The original dispute was over the company handling of one of the convenors being accused of using company facilities for Labour party election purposes and the union called for a strike before the results of the disciplinary enquiry were published. A real bloody nose for UNITE.

zagubov

MFW_ASAP wrote: »

One Scottish newspaper was saying the site is worth 4bn to the Scottish Economy, I guess this figure includes not only corporation taxes, but also the employee's salaries that are taxed and the remainder used to buy goods in the wider Scottish economy. Replace those wages with lower ones or unemployment benefits and you can see how devastating this is for the SNP in the lead up to their independance vote. Especially as BASF has also announced a closure and job losses (albeit nothing on this scale).

The SNP's 'one trick pony' of relying on a single income stream (oil) is becoming a little lame.

And, pray tell, how would more Westminster maladministration get Scotland out of this mess that it must have got it into in the first place?

vivatifosi

Thrugelmir wrote: »

Already are being addressed. Employee contributions have risen considerably. Civil Service scheme gets major revision in 2015.

Being heavily unionised results in every detail having to be negotiated.

That was my thought too. I have a public sector pension and it is not final salary (career average). It is not a bad deal, but it is not as good as the pensions that most people think we have. I have to put more in and get a lower rate of return than previous schemes.