Made joint esa claim - now losing money

Just...Yvette

I feel sick after just calling to find out the progress of my ESA claim.

I have been receiving ESA for about 3 years, contribution-based and in the support group. I get a disability element too, and in total I was receiving £213 per fortnight.

My husband lost his job and began acting as my carer. He receives carer's allowance of £59.75 per week. He was told by DWP that he wasn't able to claim any other unemployment benefits. Then we found out that we could make a joint ESA claim which we did.

I have just called (twice, I rang back to check as it was so unbelievable) and been advised that we will receive £63 per week ESA in total. That's £50 less than I was getting on my own. The advisors said this is because the carer's allowance is knocked off, and there is also a deduction because I get an occupational pension of £371 per month.

I am devastated. I think I have made a terrible mistake making the joint claim - will I be able to go back to my single claim, as the carer's allowance was not knocked off my amount then? Should I be losing so much because of my occupational pension? It's so hard to find anything out online (it's like the DWP don't want you to know - they also closed the benefit enquiry line) but I have read that the first £85 of a pension is disregarded, which would mean that the whole of mine would be disregarded. Or is that just for contribution-based ESA, and the joint claim has put us onto income-based?

Please can anyone advise. Can I revert to my original claim? Is it right what they are doing?

Just...Yvette

Can anyone advise please?

pmlindyloo

Just...Yvette wrote: »

I feel sick after just calling to find out the progress of my ESA claim.

I have been receiving ESA for about 3 years, contribution-based and in the support group. I get a disability element too, and in total I was receiving £213 per fortnight.

My husband lost his job and began acting as my carer. He receives carer's allowance of £59.75 per week. He was told by DWP that he wasn't able to claim any other unemployment benefits. Then we found out that we could make a joint ESA claim which we did.

I have just called (twice, I rang back to check as it was so unbelievable) and been advised that we will receive £63 per week ESA in total. That's £50 less than I was getting on my own. The advisors said this is because the carer's allowance is knocked off, and there is also a deduction because I get an occupational pension of £371 per month.

I am devastated. I think I have made a terrible mistake making the joint claim - will I be able to go back to my single claim, as the carer's allowance was not knocked off my amount then? Should I be losing so much because of my occupational pension? It's so hard to find anything out online (it's like the DWP don't want you to know - they also closed the benefit enquiry line) but I have read that the first £85 of a pension is disregarded, which would mean that the whole of mine would be disregarded. Or is that just for contribution-based ESA, and the joint claim has put us onto income-based?

Please can anyone advise. Can I revert to my original claim? Is it right what they are doing?

I am sorry no one has replied but it is a very complicated situation.

My advice would be to go to CAB and ask them for some help.

This is what I do know

Because you have made a joint claim you are now receiving income based ESA instead of contribution based.

This means that all income and occupational pensions are taken into account.

However, it may be that you are entitled to some premiums (extra money) if you look at your award letter it should break down what you are receiving.

The part I am unsure about is reverting back to your original contribution based ESA claim.

Logic tells me that you should be able to do this.

Hopefully, someone else will be able to tell you how.

What you need is someone to work out what you should be receiving on your joint claim as regards the added premiums and comparing this with what you would get if you went back to your single claim.

Again. logic tells me that because of your occupational pension you would be better off with your contribution based ESA and your husband claiming Carer's Allowance.

Mmmmm - difficult one.

Hopefully having 'bumped' this up someone else might have a better idea.

rogerblack

Occupational pensions reduce ESA, yes.
Half of your pension over 85/month will reduce your ESA pound for pound.
My my calculations that should have reduced your ESA initially by 61p or so.

However, importantly - your claim is now comprised of two parts.
Contributory - and income based.
The contributory ESA is minimally affected by the pension income.

The income-based part - which is what your husband would normally be paid on - is not.
Your husband and you would normally get 41 extra per week as part of a couple, paid as income-based, topped up by 33 quid or so for his caring responsibilities.
But - the pension entirely wipes this out.

As I understand it - you should at the moment be getting exactly the same money as before your husband left work - is this correct?


Can you clarify what you mean by 'a disability element'?
Are you in reciept of DLA - and if so at what rates?

As I understand it - it is possible to remove your husband from your claim again - and for him to claim CA again.

pmlindyloo

rogerblack wrote: »

Occupational pensions reduce ESA, yes.
Half of your pension over 85/month will reduce your ESA pound for pound.
My my calculations that should have reduced your ESA initially by 61p or so.

However, importantly - your claim is now comprised of two parts.
Contributory - and income based.
The contributory ESA is minimally affected by the pension income.

The income-based part - which is what your husband would normally be paid on - is not.
Your husband and you would normally get 41 extra per week as part of a couple, paid as income-based, topped up by 33 quid or so for his caring responsibilities.
But - the pension entirely wipes this out.

As I understand it - you should at the moment be getting exactly the same money as before your husband left work - is this correct?


Can you clarify what you mean by 'a disability element'?
Are you in reciept of DLA - and if so at what rates?

As I understand it - it is possible to remove your husband from your claim again - and for him to claim CA again.

OP must be receiving at least middle rate care of DLA as her husband is receiving Carer's Allowance.

I believe that this means that for the joint claim they should have had some premiums (disability and Carer's premium) added on.

Op does need to ask CAB to check the award as the amount quoted doesn't seem to be correct even allowing for the deduction of the pension and CA.

However, like you, I suspect that she can reclaim contribution based ESA.

Just...Yvette

Thank you for your replies. Just going out now but I will try to quickly answer your questions.

I get higher rate DLA for both care and mobility. I think I get a disability premium in my ESA but I can't find the letter with the details at the moment sorry.

I am at the moment getting the same amount, but the joint claim should come into effect next week - which will mean we receive £63 per week instead of £112. I hope they will let me revert to contribution-based and let me claim on my own again! I wish they'd just rung and told me that I would be better off as I was!

epitome

What rate "DLA care component" do you get? Middle or High?
He cares for you right?
Are you still in Support Group?
Did you partner work 24 hours or more per week - when he was working?
When he stopped working did you fill in an ESA3 before the CA had been granted? or after?

I used to have some notes on a subject just like this which I will try to dig out but don't hold your breath. It was something about not being allowed to have ESA Conts when there was a claim for Carers Allowance. But I think it only applies when the Claimant for ESA C is the same person who is doing the caring.. (this in not the same as your situation where it is your partner doing the caring)

This is what happened in the case I was made aware of:
The DWP warned the customer something like "If you claim CA we will close ESA C, and you be on less money on ESA IR..... you need to decide whether to claim CA & IS, or ESA IR or keep the status Quo."

The DWP cannot tell you what to do, and I don't think they have an obligation to give a warning like the one above. But you could phone ESA ask for a callback from the Benefit Centre about this decision ask them when they call you back to explain it and how it all works and then ask if you can drop the ESA IR and go back onto ESA C.

And if you do get an explanation before I find my notes can you please come back and update the thread.

My husband lost his job and began acting as my carer. He receives carer's allowance of £59.75 per week. He was told by DWP that he wasn't able to claim any other unemployment benefits.

Depending on whether you had already got an ESA IR calculation this advice may have been incorrect. If you already had an ESA IR calculation then the advice was correct. If you didn't, then it was incorrect advice and he could have claimed CA & IS (as far as I am aware) how much he would have received would be
112.55
41.95
33.30
-59.75
-106.50
-81.65
= £0.00 plus the CA
So the advice was correct he can claim IS but it would be nilled by your income. In other words he can't claim anything else apart from CA.

I am just thinking aloud below this line but I don't think this should have made a difference:
You used to be on IB...? How much did you recieve on IB? You have been on IB since before 2000 or 2002 ?
Your pension did not affect your IB.
When you switched to ESA your pension did not affect your ESA C?

When you claim ESA IR it would be a "change on your claim" and you would lose any pension protection that you had carried over from IB. So now your rate on ESA IR would be would be
112.55
34.80
21.75
total 169.10 less your pension.

You would still have ESA C 106.50 less the pension with 85 disregard. So that would be less 50pence = £106
= £212 a fortnight...
As you are only getting £63 a week this can't be the explanation I was looking for.

mikey_bach

Originally the OP was on an ESA conts only claim, the pension was disregarded as said.

But now she has claimed for her husband its becomes an ESA conts and income based claim .
This now means all income into the house hold will effect the amount she receives.

Her occupational pension is taken in pound for pound now on this new joint claim, there are no disregards iro of the pension.

Also his Carers Allowance is taken in as well

Unless there is a change of circumstance ie partner moves out then the ESA claim would have to stay the same now

epitome

mikey_bach wrote: »

Originally the OP was on an ESA conts only claim, the pension was disregarded as said.

But now she has claimed for her husband its becomes an ESA conts and income based claim .
This now means all income into the house hold will effect the amount she receives.

Her occupational pension is taken in pound for pound now on this new joint claim, there are no disregards iro of the pension.

Also his Carers Allowance is taken in as well

Unless there is a change of circumstance ie partner moves out then the ESA claim would have to stay the same now

No, I don't think this explanation is correct, if was purely down to claiming ESA C & IR and having a pension she would keep her ESA C entitlement with the 85 disregard attached to the ESA C side of the claim (which would be £106.00).... the ESA IR side would also be calculated as £169.10 less the pension, less the CA, plus the CP w(hich I calculate at £57.04 per week.)
As the ESA C is more than the ESA IR the ESA C amount would be payable.


I think either it's an error or there is this weird rule about ESA C and CA at the same time.

mikey_bach

You cant have ESA conts and CA paid to the same person,
cant get the figures to add up
any way I try

Just...Yvette

Phew it's all getting a bit confusing isn't it! Thanks so much for taking the time to reply all who have.

epitome - yes my husband was working full time before he lost his job. I get higher rate DLA care component. We didn't make the ESA joint claim until he had been receiving CA for a month or so.
I have never received IB (incapacity benefit, yes?). When I was retired from work I claimed ESA. I am still in the support group. My pension did affect my ESA contribution based when I had a single claim, but not a great deal.

I am expecting to receive some explanation of how they've worked out the £63pw soon - when I do, I will be sure to come back and update.

I'm very worried to hear that I won't be able to revert to my contribution-based claim Mikey Bach. Things just keep getting worse!