JSA Backdating Claim Rejected, Help Please!

jacques_chirac

Joosh wrote: »

How can they reasonably expect proof when there is no reason whatsoever that I would need to plan ahead for this situation?

There's no reason at all that I would have suspected that a Jobcentre employee would misdirect someone looking to claim benefits.

Therefore I would not have thought to document everything such as time and date called and the name of the person I spoke to nor distinguish between which device or phone used to make the call.

It just seems like something they couldn't reasonably expect you to prove, all I remember are the genders and accents of who I spoke to and the answers they gave me. Which if they definitely require proof is useless to me.

They don't expect proof beyond doubt, but they do need something to show that on the balance of probabilities you did what you said. Is it reasonable to expect you to note down who you spoke to? I would suggest it is, I do for any official calls.

Your case is not hopeless. The fact that they have accepted you were actively seeking work during that period would support an argument that you would have signed on had you been told you were able to. Now you just need to fill in the gaps with whatever you can.

dookar

jacques_chirac wrote: »

They don't expect proof beyond doubt, but they do need something to show that on the balance of probabilities you did what you said. Is it reasonable to expect you to note down who you spoke to? I would suggest it is, I do for any official calls.

I agree. The decision maker would probably ask of themself 'is it reasonable to expect a person to note or remember minor details of an important telephone call' and I think the answer would be yes. at the minimum, at a date range and the telephone used to make the call

jacques_chirac wrote: »

The fact that they have accepted you were actively seeking work during that period would support an argument that you would have signed on had you been told you were able to. Now you just need to fill in the gaps with whatever you can.

I don't agree. The test for ASE in circumstances such as this are quite leniant - the logic being, how can a person know what is expected of them if they haven't been told? So the test is did they do a reasonable amount of job search for a person that didn't know what the expectations are. This is very different to have they satisfied a fairly strict list of circumstances under which a delayed claim can be made. The OP suggests they have satisfied one of those circumstances (misdirected by an employment officer) but the evidence (ie the OP's statement) could easily be deemed inherently improbable

dookar

Joosh wrote: »

I'm sorry I don't fully understand this. If I have not discharged the burden of proof is that a good thing?

Sorry, you are claiming a conversation took place. The onus is on you to prove that - the burden of proof lies with you.

If you can supply sufficient evidence, then you have discharged your burden of proof. This is a good thing

Joosh

dookar wrote: »

I agree. The decision maker would probably ask of themself 'is it reasonable to expect a person to note or remember minor details of an important telephone call' and I think the answer would be yes. at the minimum, at a date range and the telephone used to make the call

The reason I didn't take the details such as name etc is simply because it wasn't an important call as soon as they told me I couldn't claim, it instead became a waste of my time and I had better things to be doing, such as jobseeking, rather than trying to argue a situation with someone who at the time I thought was correct.

Seems silly but realistically I didn't think at the time I'd be in this position and require any details as I didn't expect them to be wrong.

dookar

What can you remember? Date range? The number you called? The telephones to which you had access?

They may be able to trace the call, the more info you have the better chance

Joosh

dookar wrote: »

What can you remember? Date range? The number you called? The telephones to which you had access?

They may be able to trace the call, the more info you have the better chance

I know I called the general Jobseekers number on 25th May 2013 and also on the 14th August 2013 and 9th Sept 2013, can't remember the July one unfortunately.

No idea what phone I used on the 25th May and not entirely sure which on 9th Sept but I used my own one on 14th Aug.

Can't remember any names except for the 9th Sept one, but every time I called, if on a mobile, would have used an 0800 forwarding service or similar so it wouldn't even be calling them from the number of the phone I used would it? I have to call a number then enter the Jobseekers number in on the keypad mid-call and it then calls them for me.

dookar

I've no idea I'm afraid. All you can do is speak to them and explain.

If the forwarding service presents a number to the system then it can be found

rozmister

When I tried to claim after graduating I was told you can't claim until your course end term date (mine was in July even though classes finished in May). This is because your student loan is meant to last you until this point and you are technically still a student. I double checked this and it is the general rule so even if you are backdated it will probably be the end of term date which is the one your uni stipulates not your last day of classes.

Joosh

rozmister wrote: »

When I tried to claim after graduating I was told you can't claim until your course end term date (mine was in July even though classes finished in May). This is because your student loan is meant to last you until this point and you are technically still a student. I double checked this and it is the general rule so even if you are backdated it will probably be the end of term date which is the one your uni stipulates not your last day of classes.

Last exam date 10th May, end of term date is 24th May, I asked to backdate to 25th May.

Joosh

dookar wrote: »

I've no idea I'm afraid. All you can do is speak to them and explain.

If the forwarding service presents a number to the system then it can be found

Yeah, guess I'll just have to give it a go.

Thanks everyone for the replies!