JSA Backdating Claim Rejected, Help Please!

Joosh

Hello everyone,

Sorry it's a long post, I would like some advice please.

My last exam was at the start of May this year, with my 3rd term officially finishing on the 25th May. After my last exam I looked for work for 3 weeks and during that time realised that it would be much harder to get any job than first thought and also that many jobs I apply for in my subject area will likely take a few months with the application process.

For this reason I called Jobcentre Plus on the 25th May (my term ending date) to inquire as to whether I'd be able to claim JSA. Unfortunately my graduation wasn't until mid September (a ridiculous gap if you ask me) so I was told outright until I graduate I am a full time student and am not allowed to claim JSA.

I left it there, disappointed, and begrudgingly accepted the word of the Jobcentre employee as I had no reason to believe they were wrong.

In June I began borrowing money from friends and family to keep going whilst looking for work. In early July things were not going fantastically and I called Jobcentre Plus again to inquire, I also dropped in to my local office for a very quick chat although both times reached the same answers as the lady on the phone in May.

By this point I had given up with the Jobcentre entirely and it wasn't until someone I knew told me they were claiming JSA and had not yet graduated I called the Jobcentre again and explained everything including my previous calls.

The scottish fellow I was talking to informed me that I might be able to claim and on the 14th August I made my claim online. I didn't hear anything for a while and figured they would get back to me soon enough. After about 3 weeks I got a bit confused so called them again on 9th September, they informed me that they had text me details of an appointment however I received nothing.

Nonetheless my claim went through on the 9th September (not for the 14th August unfortunately), and I have been going in every 2 weeks since and looking for work. There were some hiccups with my living situation (I have no fixed address any more) so it took a while to get that sorted with the fraud department but all has been sorted now and I'll be getting paid from the 9th September.

For financial reasons I had applied to backdate the claim from the 25th May, as that is when I first contacted them and started looking and recording my job searches. I have recorded over 100 instances of contacting an employer since May and a reasonable amount of emails and have an interview in November.

I sent this evidence along with the backdating form and my student finance details, plus term dates to prove that I had no student loan help from the date I want to back date to, and that uni had actually finished.

I got a letter through today saying they have rejected my application for backdating.

They said I have "satisfied the conditions for the Labour Market for the duration of your backdate claim" but "have not shown due cause for the delay in making your claim for Jobseekers allowance" and they therefore said they cannot backdate my claim.

I don't understand, I explained clearly that I was fully trying to claim in May on the 25th and that if I had gotten different more correct advice from the Jobcentre employee on that date I would have been claiming from that date. I need this claim to be backdated as I have borrowed money during the time I was told I couldn't claim.

I feel I have been wrongly advised by the lady on the phone on the 25th May in the first instance and then again in July and at the local office, I think they just couldn't be bothered with a complicated claim and just dismissed me using a common reason that I wouldn't think to question as it's their job.

The problem I have is that in order to appeal I'm going to need to prove that I contacted them on these times and I haven't got any proof. I will appeal over and over again if I need to but I really don't want it to be this hard when I've done everything required in order to be eligible to backdate.

Has anyone got any advice for me?

Many Thanks

Joosh

jacques_chirac

You can appeal the backdating decision. Do you have proof of the phone calls you made, an itemised phone bill and the name of the person you spoke to?

Joosh

jacques_chirac wrote: »

You can appeal the backdating decision. Do you have proof of the phone calls you made, an itemised phone bill and the name of the person you spoke to?

I'm planning on appealing their decision, but I have no names of any of the people I spoke to, I didn't think to write it all down as I believed every word they said, what reason would I have had not to... that's the issue.

As for the phone bill, I can't remember what phone I made the call from, it could have be one of many! A friends mobile, friends house phone, parents house phone. It was nearly 5 months ago now.

I was changing my contract phone in May so it wasn't from my mobile unfortunately.

I'm guessing this isn't going to be easy for me...

sammyjammy

What you are claiming is Misdirection by a DWP employee, not once but three times!

The trouble is it will be very hard for you to prove this is the case with no evidence.

Joosh

Will there be proof anywhere that I did call on their end? Or do they not hold that information?

Viberduo

In mine and many other peoples experience any appeals of any kind are hard to win because a few years ago I moved area and was mistold information and even though I appealed and did win the initial backdating I was not told when to sign a new agreement and to sign on and got a letter stating I missed 2 sign on appointments so lost my JSA and lost my appeal stating my reasons(that I was never told of any sign on appointments, had no sign on booklet or signed a jsa agreement) I failed!

Another time I had to cancel a appointment as broke my toe and was in agony but they forgot to rearrange it so lost a months money and rejected my appeal.

Its just your word against theirs, if the jobcentre can lose my friends P60 twice then claim it was never handed in and he needed to prove it and refuse to sign for recorded delivery letters then you have little chance.

Best to at least try though.

Joosh

That's just silly. Obviously if it's my word against theirs then I'll lose but just how high can I take this, can I appeal forever?

I'm not accepting that someone misdirected me causing me to lose out on a potential 5 months benefit, that would just be ludicrous. That's just plain not going to happen.

If I lose all my appeals and am told I can't appeal anymore could I just send them a letter every day or week appealing?

That really wouldn't be hard to do as I have their Freepost address.

jacques_chirac

Joosh wrote: »

That's just silly. Obviously if it's my word against theirs then I'll lose but just how high can I take this, can I appeal forever?

I'm not accepting that someone misdirected me causing me to lose out on a potential 5 months benefit, that would just be ludicrous. That's just plain not going to happen.

If I lose all my appeals and am told I can't appeal anymore could I just send them a letter every day or week appealing?

That really wouldn't be hard to do as I have their Freepost address.

You can appeal to tribunal and in limited circumstances to the upper tribunal, but as noted without evidence you will struggle. There is no value to writing more than once, further letters would simply be filed against your original appeal.

dookar

Joosh wrote: »

That's just silly. Obviously if it's my word against theirs then I'll lose

Not necessarily, in normal circumstances. It's established case law that a claimant's evidence is to be believed unless it is self contradictory, casts doubt upon itself or is inherently improbable.

The problem you have is that you have no evidence - you don't know the number from which you called, the time, the date or to whom you spoke.

The decision maker is required to decide whether you have discharged the burden of proof and, in my opinion, based on the facts above, they can only decide you have not.

Depending on the number you called, if you are able to give them sufficient information, they may be able to trace your call

Joosh

jacques_chirac wrote: »

You can appeal to tribunal and in limited circumstances to the upper tribunal, but as noted without evidence you will struggle. There is no value to writing more than once, further letters would simply be filed against your original appeal.

How can they reasonably expect proof when there is no reason whatsoever that I would need to plan ahead for this situation?

There's no reason at all that I would have suspected that a Jobcentre employee would misdirect someone looking to claim benefits.

Therefore I would not have thought to document everything such as time and date called and the name of the person I spoke to nor distinguish between which device or phone used to make the call.

It just seems like something they couldn't reasonably expect you to prove, all I remember are the genders and accents of who I spoke to and the answers they gave me. Which if they definitely require proof is useless to me.

Joosh

dookar wrote: »

Not necessarily, in normal circumstances. It's established case law that a claimant's evidence is to be believed unless it is self contradictory, casts doubt upon itself or is inherently improbable.

The problem you have is that you have no evidence - you don't know the number from which you called, the time, the date or to whom you spoke.

Depending on the number you called, if you are able to give them sufficient information, they may be able to trace your call

So a 'true until proven false' type of thing? Similar to 'innocent until proven guilty'?

In that case if I just appeal and explain in as much detail as possible it might be ok?

I have an issue in that I used a call forwarding service when on any mobile including my own when calling an 0800 number that forwards it and then counts towards my inclusive minutes rather than charging me for a freephone number. Something I picked up from this forum somewhere.

I know a lot of people that use it. So from that respect I'm really going to struggle to give them evidence.

dookar wrote: »

The decision maker is required to decide whether you have discharged the burden of proof and, in my opinion, based on the facts above, they can only decide you have not.

I'm sorry I don't fully understand this. If I have not discharged the burden of proof is that a good thing?