Home insurance when history of flooded garden?

littlecabbage

Hello,

My husband and I are a long way through the process of buying a detached house built in 1950, standard construction etc. The vendors' questionnaire has been returned to us saying that there was some flooding in the front garden only in 2011, during the heavy rains - upon further questioning, they say that this did not affect the house itself or any outbuildings, and that it was the first time any part of the property has ever flooded (and our full structural survey has not shown up any signs that the house has ever flooded).

The vendors have said that it was due to the drains on the main road outside the house not being able to cope with the amount of rain that fell during that period.

I have telephoned a couple of leading insurers about this - the first said they would not insure the property, and the second said we would need written proof from the council to show that they had improved the drains to prevent this happening again (we haven't yet enquired but suspect that nothing will have been done).

Does anyone have any advice about this? There will be no history of previous flooding on insurance records presumably as the vendors did not need to make any kind of claim? Does that mean that insurers could not find out about this minor historical flood? Some of the policy wordings specifically say "home" and define that as the "house and its outbuildings" which would mean that we can say the home has never flooded, but the first major insurer's wording said this but then when I telephoned to clarify, they said that the garden flood history makes the house uninsurable with them. Would we be crazy to risk saying "no" to previous flooding with such wording, in case we ever did need to claim for flooding in future and the insurers didn't agree with our interpretation of their wording?

Also, we only found out verbally that the flood came from the road. We have had a drainage survey at the property (for other reasons) which has shown that some of the drains in the front garden aren't working properly. We are having these issues fixed anyway. Could we then say that the garden has flooded before but provide written proof that the drains have now been improved, whilst secretly knowing that the problem was due to the mains drains and not ours (according to the vendors)?

Please help!

weejonnie

err no!

I might have looked at the risk as there is no flood damage to the house itself - but not after the penultimate paragraph.

littlecabbage

Sorry, can you clarify what you mean? Are you saying "no, we shouldn't buy this house based on the history of garden flooding from the road"?

We felt that because this garden flooding occurred during that time of incredibly heavy rainfall in 2011, when lots of properties which had never previously flooded did so, we could feel relatively confident that the house wouldn't flood. I.e, if the house itself hadn't flooded at that time of very heavy rainfall, then it is unlikely to in future.

But of course it's a different story when it comes to getting insurance cover, and we have now realised that this property info form from vendors will probably get sent to the bank, and we may not get our mortgage anyway!

Just_Some_Guy

littlecabbage wrote: »

Would we be crazy to risk saying "no" to previous flooding with such wording, in case we ever did need to claim for flooding in future and the insurers didn't agree with our interpretation of their wording?

yes. Insurers employ people who spend all day arguing about definitions and you really don't want that hassle if you get flooded

I would be very concerned about the flooding coming from rainwater runoff. The knackered drains won't be the sole cause of it; the downstream sewer is not a magic tunnel and can only handle a certain intensity of rainstorm before it starts backing up, even if you have perfect drains

I would think long and hard before committing to a place that has any history of flooding at all (or appears in one of the blue areas in the environment agency flood maps)

vaio

some of the trouble with cases like this is that the people you speak to at call centres are low paid/trained who often make guesses rather than the highly paid/trained people who actually write the questions and know about acceptable risk and how to identify it.

In the online world where policies are taken out without human contact the rule is they need to ask clear questions about anything they consider to be significant and you need to truthfully answer any questions asked. You volunteering anything extra is unnecessary and will only confuse them. If they care they will ask.

If an insurer asks about flooding of your home and defines "home" as "buildings only" rather than "buildings and garden" then you don't need to mention a flood that only affects the garden and that's before you start to consider what constitutes a "flood" in a garden.

My garden is poor draining clay and we get puddles on the lawn the size of which depends on how heavy the rain is. When does that become a "flood"? When it covers 10%? 50%? 100%?

littlecabbage

Thanks for the replies so far - sounds as though different people think differently about this? Just so that we don't sound like total idiots, there are a couple of extra factors to consider:

1). The vendors have lived here for 50 years and that was the only incident of flooding they experienced.

2). The house is currently surrounded by fields on 3 sides, but they are all ear-marked for housing development - one within next 2 years and others within 5 years. So surely the drainage systems surrounding the area will have to be improved by the developers?

Spikey1

Hi Cabbage......I think you've talked yourself in to buying the house. For what its worth I think that your rationale stacks up and I'd do the same.

As for the question you asked about your Insurers finding out about the flooded garden. If you have answered "no" when asked if the property has flooded before then you would need to give the same response when you are asked the same question at the time you make any claim (Insurers will ask the same questions again to cross-check what you told them at proposal stage). If its true that the previous owners never made a claim then your new Insurer will not trace the incident when they check the Claims Database (known as CUE).

It might be worth checking with the previous owner that, apart from not making a claim, they never actually reported the incident to their Insurers either. A claim that was reported would show up on CUE even if it was not pursued further.

vaio

if the insurers question covers floods to gardens then I'd not even consider concealing it on the grounds that it *might* not be on CUE.

It did happen, is documented on the sellers questionnaire (at the very least) and should be disclosed.

littlecabbage

I agree that we shouldn't hide it if the insurers ask about the gardens, but if their standard assumptions ask about house and outbuildings only, then surely we wouldn't be concealing anything falsely?

vaio

yep, the advice has to be read the questions & answer them honestly. Don't volunteer anything not asked about. If they care they will ask

ruggedtoast

littlecabbage wrote: »

I agree that we shouldn't hide it if the insurers ask about the gardens, but if their standard assumptions ask about house and outbuildings only, then surely we wouldn't be concealing anything falsely?

You've already tried two insurers who have stated quite clearly that they consider the flooding in the front garden to be significant.

I'm not sure what else you need to consider. You can either answer 'no' to the historic flooding question and hope you get away with it if you do need to claim (risking cancellation and an uninsured property) , or stump up for the increased premiums. Which will be significant if you can find any flood cover at all.

Why not approach the vendors for a discount of some sort to cover the extra costs and reduced resale value?

Personally I would be looking for a hefty discount or another house. Are you not concerned at all that there was flood water a few metres from the house you want to buy a few years back?