Biggest Threats to Cyclists?

Tilt

custardy wrote: »

lets not digress
lets stick to your points
so you are happy with the overtake on that video, regardless of the drivers other actions?

We're not. But you simply seem to want to ignore the issues with bad cycling which (possibly) is contributing to the sudden surge of deaths in London. As the Silly Cyclists You Tube clips clearly show, there are far too many cyclists putting THEMSELVES in danger.

Some of the examples are frankly astonishing.

You have simply recently bought in the serial-eating motorist (who I have already agreed was stupid) to "digress" the issue.

Tilt

AndyBSG wrote: »

Unfortunately, this thread is full of the good old "Dead Cat On The Table" tactic that Boris himself has been employing with his comments on helmets and headphone, or as I like to call it the "Look over there so you can't see what's actually going on over here" method.

The facts are simple.

- 6 cyclists have been killed by HGV's in 14 days.
- A helmet would have saved none of them.
- None of them were jumping red lights.
- None of them were wearing headphones.

Yet this thread is full of people alluding that cyclists are the problem because they don't wear helmets and jump red lights.

Also amusing to see the people criticising cyclists are basing their criticism on youtube videos and public opinion rather than actual cold hard facts and statistics.

But were any of them undertaking the HGVs while they were indicating to turn left? The You Tube clips clearly shows that it does happen as well as cyclists squeezing through some ridiculously tight gaps... even when the vehicles are moving or about to move!

hugheskevi

The facts are simple.

I don't think I can agree with that.

I've found that it seems clear that when I'm cycling I am responsible for the actions of other cyclists.

However, I'm not clear if when I am cycling I am responsible for the action of motorcyclists - or is that only when I am riding a motorbike?

And when am I responsible for the actions of other cars drivers - all the time, or only when I am driving my car? Or are cars different, and I'm never responsible for the actions of other car drivers at any time?

The Highway Code is most negligent on these matters, they aren't touched upon at all :mad:

Le73Uq86Uv

liz545 wrote: »

How do you propose we do that? Do you flag down every driver you see breaking the speed limit and perform a citizen's arrest?

Cyclist and cycle groups could ask for legislation and registration of Bikes and their users. i.e some form of number plate/licence.

It could be free but knowing the government they will want to make a profit out of it.

We have the Police to pull up motorists, but with bikes there is no one.

brat

hugheskevi wrote: »

I don't think I can agree with that.

I've found that it seems clear that when I'm cycling I am responsible for the actions of other cyclists.

However, I'm not clear if when I am cycling I am responsible for the action of motorcyclists - or is that only when I am riding a motorbike?

And when am I responsible for the actions of other cars drivers - all the time, or only when I am driving my car? Or are cars different, and I'm never responsible for the actions of other car drivers at any time?

The Highway Code is most negligent on these matters, they aren't touched upon at all :mad:

I know this post is clearly tongue in cheek, but...

... many drivers seem to believe that cyclists should be responsible for the actions of other cyclists.

Every road users is completely responsible for their own behaviour on the road. They are not responsible for anyone else's driving or riding.

Norman_Castle

We have the Police to pull up motorists, but with bikes there is no one.

The police, police cyclists.

AndyBSG

Tilt wrote: »

But were any of them undertaking the HGVs while they were indicating to turn left? The You Tube clips clearly shows that it does happen as well as cyclists squeezing through some ridiculously tight gaps... even when the vehicles are moving or about to move!

I'm not trying to discuss who was at fault in these accidents, that's something that will have to wait until the official coroners report.

What I am getting at is why are the discussions on here automatically assuming that the cyclist was in some way riding illegally, doing something stupid, died because they didn't have a helmet, etc and nowhere is anyone considering the possibility the HGV drivers were at fault?

The comments on here from certain posters shows exactly what is wrong with the mentality of drivers to cyclists by labelling all of them as law breaking, reckless road users when the actual stats show that in the majority of cyclist v vehicle accidents it is the vehicle driver who is at fault but nowhere are cyclists going round saying 'all drivers drive illegally and dangerously'

There's almost a "Well, if they were on a bicycle they probably caused the accident themselves and deserved it for riding like that" when anyone who actually looks at accident figures and liability apportionment will see that it's very rarely the case.

brat

Le73Uq86Uv wrote: »

Cyclist and cycle groups could ask for legislation and registration of Bikes and their users. i.e some form of number plate/licence.

You mean like a turkey asks for christmas?

It could be free but knowing the government they will want to make a profit out of it.

Even to cover costs and administering it would be a nightmare. We have nine bikes in the family. Would you have each bike individually registered?

Le73Uq86Uv wrote: »

We have the Police to pull up motorists, but with bikes there is no one.

So the 2500 police operating in London recently fining cyclists as well as motorists are acting beyond their powers??
:eek:

WiggyDiggyPoo

Tilt wrote: »

We're not. But you simply seem to want to ignore the issues with bad cycling which (possibly) is contributing to the sudden surge of deaths in London. As the Silly Cyclists You Tube clips clearly show, there are far too many cyclists putting THEMSELVES in danger.

Some of the examples are frankly astonishing.

You have simply recently bought in the serial-eating motorist (who I have already agreed was stupid) to "digress" the issue.

There are one simple reason you will find good examples of bad cycling in those videos:

Its called SillyCyclists. It is presented as a video series to highlight how not to cycle and presumably would do a rather poor job of that if it didn't feature such cyclists.

Your opinion based on watching those videos that cyclists have suddenly become suicidal lemmings throwing themselves under lorries is wrong and insulting.

I don't watch series such as Police Interceptors, then suddenly declare all motorists are drunken yobbos in stolen cars. Yet that is the blinkered opinion you have formed of cyclists after seeing some clips of bad cycling.

andrewf75

The whole problem with this is the way people split into two groups - cyclists and motorists. What is clearly wrong in this country is that cycling is considered something that certain people do - and I suppose it takes a certain person to brave our roads which lack cycling infrastructure. Frustrated by this and under constant threat from motorists, the reaction is aggressive cycling and it becomes a vicious circle.

Contrast with places like Holland, where cycling is a part of road planning, all kinds of people cycle as a means of transport, they aren't termed "cyclists" they are just commuters, people on everyday journeys so you get a much broader range of people and they have no need to be aggressive because they are provided for equally.

There have been a few whispers recently that the government might invest some money, but it is nowhere near enough. Cycling is healthy, green and cuts congestion. Its a no brainer to invest billions on proper seperate cycle routes.