Sneaky ticket

billybumble

I have put my jumbled letter here. I got a letter saying I had not paid a carpark ticket. I never had one attached to my screen. As it was over 28 days they said I couldn't appeal but I sent them a letter explaining I was told I could park there and also that there was no ticket and to send proof. Which they did!! what a git!! I am currently ill, sitting exams soon and am in a position where I do not want stress at all- however, it's just so unjust. I was an idiot for trusting someone. So anyway they send a letter with evidence but didn't acknowledge anything else. I have tried to draft a letter. I have lots more I could add (from reading on here) about how doesn't fit BPA guidelines. no trespass, no losses etc etc but isn't that for a POPLA appeal. Do I just need to send another letter asking for it and explaining why....there is a rough draft below. Excuse that it is repetitive, long winded, etc. I have a PC that keeps crashing, final exam revision and hormones that are awol. I can hardly sting a sentence together these days. What do you think?



Dear ,

I have received your so called evidence of my vehicle parkedin the car park at **** . This is theonly part of my letter that you acknowledged. I also stated told you that awarden who was in that car-park and was photographing a registration of anothervehicle., when asked by the driver ifparking was allowed there, was given permission to do so. In fact thisperson told the driver where to park. Had the driver seen any signs within thiscar park they would not have parked there. Where they were directed to park NOsigns were visible within eye level. The driver have since been back to the site(as stated in my previous missive) and noticed that they were indeed entrappedby this warden. The only signs were in position from where the driver wasparked they were not visible, as they were behind the driver high up on thewall (as shown in your photograph) andit was impossible to read them. Thewarden also after guiding the driver into the gap was stood in front of them,so no signs were visble. The only other sign was low on a wall and was obscuredby the car that you can see in the picture, next to the keepers car. This warden parked his car across the signs onthe drivers return. When the driverreturned they wondered why the carpark was not busy with a main one being shutand the warden was still there and the driver asked ‘This isn’t a private carpark is it, I won’t get a ticket?’ He assured the driver that they would notand it was okay. There was NO ticket on this car on the drivers return. Thisperson entrapped the driver into parking there and photographed the car as soonas the driver left. He obviously put aticket on, photographed it and removed it. Is this your usual company policy,entrapment and deceit? The first the driver knew of any wrong doing was receivingthe fine for not paying the one attached to the windscreen. The one that wasnot there on the return (the driver was waved of at entrance by friends noticket)

This incident was not acknowledged in your reply. Neitherwas my request for the POPLA code. Which require to contest this charge. There was no ticket on my car on the return.The signs are not compatible with BPA guidelines. There are no signs on the entrance,No signs ahead of where I was TOLD to park. There is clear evidence that fromwhere the driver was parked I would not be able to see them. I can provide my own photographic proof ofthis. Regardless of any of this, I againreiterate that the driver was told they could park there.

Had the driver knowingly seen the signs and parked therewould accept this fine. However being as this was entrapped to park there, thedevious way this has been handled and the unfairness of the charge. I want toappeal and it is my right to do so, as contrary to your’ evidence’ there was noPCN on this car. The driver has a healthcondition/disability that is greatly exaggerated by stress , as a blue badgeholder for these conditions they could have parked on a double yellow outsidethe vicinity , had they have not been given permission to park there. Thisincident is causing me great distress. The driver never knowingly entered intoa contract with anyone except the person giving their permission. The sameperson who immediately put a ticket on, when the driver left the vehicle andthen removed it! I am also in the firsttrimester of my first pregnancy and this can be confirmed. However, I will appeal against this and I wantthis ticket either rebuked or the POPLA code sent as requested in my firstletter. I also have other very stronggrounds to contest this ticket.

I have strong grounds to contest this ticket. (isn't this for after popla code given..this kind of stuff below...?)

1. Nocontract

There was no contract between the driver and UKCPS. The driver did not see anycontractual information on any of the signs when entering the car park andtherefore at that time had no idea that any contract or restrictions applied.As a consequence the requirements for forming a contract such as a meeting ofminds, agreement, and certainty of terms were not satisfied. I Was asked topark in such a way that the signs were not visible. The photo shows signsbehind me high up on a wall. There were no signs in front of my vehicle of thissort. The only signs were on the wall- permit holders only but the drivercouldn’t see those as the man guided them where to park.



2. Trespass

If there was no contract, then at most the driver was guilty of a civiltrespass (though being given the permission to do so, hardly counts astrespass) If this were the case, thedriver may be liable to damages. Given that no ‘damage’ was done to the carpark and that the car park was not completely empty bar one car and not in thecentres ‘opening’ hours. It was neither an obstruction or a trespass.

3. 3. NoLandowners Contract

I do not believe that the Operator has demonstrated a proprietary interest inthe land, because they have no legal possession which would give Parking Eyeany right to offer parking spaces, let alone allege a contract with third partycustomers of the lawful owner/occupiers. In addition, Parking Eye Ltd’s lack oftitle in this land means they have no legal standing to allege trespass orloss, if that is the basis of their charge. I require UKCPS to demonstratetheir legal ownership of the land to POPLA.
4. Punitive/unfair/unreasonable charge

The Department for Transport guidelines state, in Section 16 Frequently AskedQuestions, that:

"Charges for breaking a parking contract must be reasonable and a genuinepre-estimate of loss. This means charges must compensate the landholder onlyfor the loss they are likely to suffer because the parking contract has beenbroken. For example, to cover the unpaid charges and the administrative costsassociated with issuing the ticket to recover the charges. Charges may not beset at higher levels than necessary to recover business losses and theintention should not be to penalise the driver." In this case, Parking Eyehas failed to provide any calculation to show how the £60 figure is arrived at,whether as an actual or pre-estimated loss. It is the Appellant's position thatParking Eye has suffered no loss whatsoever in this case. Even if there was acontract (which is denied), the following matters are relevant:

4(a). Punitive

The parking charge UKCPS is imposing is punitive and therefore void (i.e.unenforceable). The £100 parking charge is arbitrary and disproportionate toany alleged breach of contract or trespass. This would also apply to anymention of any costs incurred through debt recovery unless it followed a courtorder.

Umkomaas

No wonder you're in a bit of a state. You've gone overboard on this ..... for the moment, but it will come in useful for POPLA possibly.

Can you give us some basic details to go on please.

1. Date of parking incident?
2. Date you received your first notification in the post (Notice to Keeper)?
3. Did that notification mention (words to the effect) pursuing the Registered Keeper?
4. Was the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012 mentioned in the letter?
5. Was the incident, and do you live in England or Wales?
6. What facility was the car park servicing - retail park, shop, leisure complex etc?

That will do for now. Try not to panic and we'll help you to plot your way through it.

Coupon-mad

Is this your usual company policy,entrapment and deceit?

YEP - presumably you haven't read much about UKCPS or you'd know!

Google these exact words: 'UKCPS address the factual issues' to find 'your' letter and to read how others have responded with simpler letters just demanding a POPLA code if UKCPS have said this will follow 'at the appropriate time' (we are aware of the wording of their standard letters and so can you be).


Do the Google search now and read recent threads about UKCPS on here and on pepipoo forums - all worth you reading to see how others have handled this and got to POPLA stage,and won.

Then please answer with more of an informed approach after reading other threads, Umkomaas' questions:

Can you give us some basic details to go on please.

1. Date of parking incident?
2. Date you received your first notification in the post (Notice to Keeper)?
3. Did that notification mention (words to the effect) pursuing the Registered Keeper?
4. Was the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012 mentioned in the letter?
5. Was the incident, and do you live in England or Wales?
6. What facility was the car park servicing - retail park, shop, leisure complex etc?

That will do for now. Try not to panic and we'll help you to plot your way through it.

billybumble

Hi folks,
Blimey yes, my 'letter' is a bit if a rant but all the above is a true account.
I sent an original letter saying that I had been given permission to park there and that no PCN was on the car - that the signs didn't fit BPA guidelines and that I wanted evidence of the PCN on my car. Which well I am shocked that they have sent.

It is there standard letter...whilst they can't go into factual issues...bla bla and that the photos show signage ..that they have considered everything in my letter (Which they didn't as they made no reference to entrapment). That I have 7 days from the date of the letter to reply (dated 20/9/2013 but received on 26th- ironically!) I need to reply with new evidence and being as it is over 7 days I need to get my letter in order and sent off. With as little stress as possible. Any help, would be great. I have an over heating PC which keeps crashing- but hopefully can get this sorted today.

Can you give us some basic details to go on please.

1. Date of parking incident?- 25/7/2013 - I got a letter saying I hadn't paid PCN- fine went up to £100
2. Date you received your first notification in the post (Notice to Keeper)? (28th august dated on letter)
3. Did that notification mention (words to the effect) pursuing the Registered Keeper? yes
4. Was the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012 mentioned in the letter? Yes
5. Was the incident, and do you live in England or Wales? england
6. What facility was the car park servicing - retail park, shop, leisure complex etc? it was a health centre, closed in the evening when I parked.

That will do for now. Try not to panic and we'll help you to plot your way through it.

Umkomaas

I'm away for most of today, but will be back this evening. I'm sure others will also get involved in the meantime.

Later.....

Coupon-mad

So anyway they send a letter with evidence but didn't acknowledge anything else. I have tried to draft a letter. I have lots more I could add (from reading on here) about how doesn't fit BPA guidelines. no trespass, no losses etc etc but isn't that for a POPLA appeal. Do I just need to send another letter asking for it and explaining why...

Yep, quite simple really. Send just a short letter demanding the POPLA code and saying you've reported them to the BPA for not sending a POPLA code with a rejection letter, and for the letter lying that you have 'missed your chance to appeal' and saying you only have (seven or 14 days?) to take action now? All lies so complain to the BPA about the Operator breaking the BPA Code of Practice and the POFA 2012:

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/comment/63324122#Comment_63324122

So do both; a quick letter to UKCPS and an email complaint to David M.

billybumble

Thanks.

In my short letter do I put any of the above ramble? They did say they rejected my appeal and that I would need additional evidence.

I seem to have a job keeping anything short, must be my hormones! haha. I don't see me doing well in my forthcoming exam

Okay..will give it a go. Short precise and to the point.

billybumble

Its getting shorter...
but maybe just give the code will do?

I have received your so called evidence of my vehicle parkedin the car park at **** . This is theonly part of my letter that you acknowledged. I also stated told you that awarden who was in that car-park and was photographing a registration of anothervehicle. When asked by the driver if parking was allowed there, gave the driverpermission to do so, even telling the driver where to park. From where thedriver was told to park, no signs were visible. The ones shown in yourphotograph are behind the driver, high up on a wall. When the driver exited carthey were talking to the ‘warden’ Thesewere not visible at eye level , or in front of the car. The only other sign waslow on a wall and was obscured by the car that you can see in the picture, nextto the keeper’s car. There was NO ticketon this car on the drivers return. This person entrapped the driver into parkingthere and photographed the car as soon as the driver left. He obviously put a ticket on, photographed itand removed it. Is this your usual company policy, entrapment and deceit? Thefirst the driver knew of any wrong doing was receiving the fine for not payingthe one attached to the windscreen.

You letter did not ‘address all the issues’, I raised and you did not provide me with thePOLPA code in your rejection. It statesI had 7 days to reply with new evidence and yet arrived to me 7 days after its ‘date’.This breaks the BPA Code of Practice and the POFA 2012. As does your signageand the way you have not dealt with the issues I raised in my first letter.

I am a person with health issues and am in the firsttrimester of pregnancy. I could do without stress of this kind. However, Istrongly dispute this unfair charge and want it either rebuked. If you refuseto do so, I demand the POPLA code. It ismy right to do so.

Umkomaas

billygirl (I almost wrote billyboy until I realised you are pregnant!). Please go through your last post and reformat it to separate all the conjoined words so we can read it easily, then we can give you some further advice on how to proceed with this.

Sorry I didn't get back to you last night, the forum was awash with new posts that I needed to read through - took until almost midnight!

billybumble

I cut and pasted it from a word document. No idea why some words are jumbled. I've corrected that but probably still long and rambling. I need to get this off today really.

I have received your so called evidence of my vehicle parked in the car park at **** . This is the only part of my letter that you acknowledged. I also stated told you that a warden who was in that car-park and was photographing a registration of another vehicle. When asked by the driver if parking was allowed there, gave the driver permission to do so, even telling the driver where to park. From where the driver was told to park, no signs were visible. The ones shown in your photograph are behind the driver, high up on a wall. When the driver exited car they were talking to the ‘warden’ These were not visible at eye level , or in front of the car. The only other sign was low on a wall and was obscured by the car that you can see in the picture, next to the keeper’s car. There was NO ticket on this car on the drivers return. This person entrapped the driver into parking there and photographed the car as soon as the driver left. He obviously put a ticket on, photographed it and removed it. Is this your usual company policy, entrapment and deceit? The first the driver knew of any wrong doing was receiving the fine for not paying the one attached to the windscreen.

You letter did not ‘address all the issues’, I raised and you did not provide me with the POLPA code in your rejection. It states I had 7 days to reply with new evidence and yet arrived to me 7 days after its ‘date’. This breaks the BPA Code of Practice and the POFA 2012. As does your signage and the way you have not dealt with the issues I raised in my first letter.

I am a person with health issues and am in the first trimester of pregnancy. I could do without stress of this kind. However, I strongly dispute this unfair charge and want it either rebuked. If you refuse to do so, I demand the POPLA code. It is my right to do so.

Umkomaas

Having read your last post (yes copying and pasting from Word does seem to mess up formatting) I think a better tack will be to send this draft. I've typed this twice now - the last time I posted it everything went blank and it was irrecoverable, so here's another attempt!

PCN Number xxx
Car Registration Number xxx
Date of Incident xxx

Dear Sir

I have already made an appeal to you in regard to the above PCN. You have neither accepted my appeal (and cancelled the charged) nor rejected it and provided me with a POPLA verification code (to which I am entitled).

Please be aware of my appeal point that:

I was shown into a space by your parking warden from which no signs were immediately visible. In my conversation with your warden he did not direct me to any pay and display requirement, instead as soon as I left my car, he photographed and ticketed it. He clearly saw me leave and had the opportunity to inform me of the need to P&D, and thereby mitigate any potential loss to you.

The BPA Code of Practice requires the Operator to either accept the appeal (and cancel the charge) or reject it and provide a POPLA verification code. As you appear to be unaware of this, I am replicating below the relevant paragraph from the CoP (to which you are a signatory) for your advice and information:

22.12. If you reject a challenge you must:

• tell the driver how to make an appeal to POPLA.This includes providing a template ‘notice of appeal’ form, or a link to the appropriate website for lodging an appeal and the 10-digit verification code.
• give the driver a reasonable amount of time to pay the charge before restarting the collection process. We recommend that you allow at least 35 days from the date you rejected the challenge.

As you will see, there are only two options open to you - accept and cancel or reject and provide POPLA code. There is no third option.

Additionally I am informing you that I was at the time, and still am, pregnant. I remind you that this is a 'protected characteristic' under the terms of the Equality Act 2010 and I must serve warning that I will pursue your unwanted harassment of a pregnant woman under the Act if you fail to deal with this case as per the letter of the BPA Code of Practice (to which you are a signatory).

Again, for your advice and information, I am replicating the relevant paragraph from Protected Characteristics Section of the Act:

Pregnancy and maternity

Pregnancy is the condition of being pregnant or expecting a baby. Maternity refers to the period after the birth, and is linked to maternity leave in the employment context. In the non-work context, protection against maternity discrimination is for 26 weeks after giving birth, and this includes treating a woman unfavourably because she is breastfeeding.

You should also be aware that any signatory to a code of conduct is required to act in accordance with that code of conduct as per the Office of Fair Trading's Consumer Protection from Unfair Trading Regulations.

In view of all the above, please either accept this appeal and cancel the charge, or reject it and provide me with a POPLA verification code, to which I am entitled.

Please note - I will be forwarding copies of this letter alongside previous correspondence to the DVLA and British Parking Association Ltd to alert them to the fact that you appear to have decided to ignore the requirements placed on you (as detailed above) and to instigate follow up action to ensure that you will comply in this case.

I look forward to receiving either your acceptance of this appeal (and cancellation of the charge) or rejection of it and the receipt of my POPLA code - to which I am entitled within 14 days of the date of this letter.

Your faithfully