Video Games are not Evil!

Mrs.W_2

I admin/write for two browser based text games. For the most part those games run along rather well. We have as much tension/conflict as you'd expect in such games, but it almost never goes overboard. Most of our players are over the age of thirty, so know how to resolve any misunderstandings/difficulties between themselves.

Every now and again we get a new team/crew of young people (over 13yrs) who seem to love violent war games joining one or other of our games.

From the get go their attitude is appalling. The language they use is foul. Almost immediately they are banned from the chat facility for abusing other members.

It's almost as if they are high when they come to our games fresh from playing whatever online war games they enjoy.

I probably shouldn't smile about this point, but our games have a high number of players serving in the US forces, and whenever those idiots become too offensive, certain players make sure the offensive characters are hospitalised as soon as they log on. They soon loose interest in our games when they find themselves unable to play.

Dumbe

1. FIFA 14
2. Grand Theft Auto 5
3. Minecraft: Xbox 360 Edition
4. Pro Evolution Soccer 2014
5. The Last of Us
6. Disney Infinity
7. Splinter Cell: Blacklist
8. Saints Row 4
9. Diablo 3
10. Rayman Legends
11. Call of Duty: Black Ops 2
12. Kingdom Hearts HD 1.5 Remix
13. LEGO Batman 2: DC Super Heroes
14. Grand Theft Auto 4
15. Max Payne 3
16. Need For Speed: Most Wanted
17. Skylanders Giants
18. Aliens: Colonial Marines
19. Tomb Raider
20. Animal Crossing: New Leaf

Going through this list I am not sure how anyone gt only 2 being based on evil and encouraging bad behavior

2 grand theft auto versions. Theft is evil no?
Call of duty? Involves shooting people?
Toomb raider?
Aliens colonial marines ? Violent
Need for speed ?
Diabloo 3...
Splinter cell


This seems rather more then two and a high percentage if you don't count the sports and very young child ones such as Disney infinity

Nilrem

Dumbe wrote: »

1. FIFA 14
2. Grand Theft Auto 5
3. Minecraft: Xbox 360 Edition
4. Pro Evolution Soccer 2014
5. The Last of Us
6. Disney Infinity
7. Splinter Cell: Blacklist
8. Saints Row 4
9. Diablo 3
10. Rayman Legends
11. Call of Duty: Black Ops 2
12. Kingdom Hearts HD 1.5 Remix
13. LEGO Batman 2: DC Super Heroes
14. Grand Theft Auto 4
15. Max Payne 3
16. Need For Speed: Most Wanted
17. Skylanders Giants
18. Aliens: Colonial Marines
19. Tomb Raider
20. Animal Crossing: New Leaf

Going through this list I am not sure how anyone gt only 2 being based on evil and encouraging bad behavior

2 grand theft auto versions. Theft is evil no?
Call of duty? Involves shooting people?
Toomb raider?
Aliens colonial marines ? Violent
Need for speed ?
Diabloo 3...
Splinter cell


This seems rather more then two and a high percentage if you don't count the sports and very young child ones such as Disney infinity

There is a world of difference between violent and evil...

For example call of duty is usually based on some sort of military conflict (hence the title...).
I don't think anyone would disagree that war is bad, but fighting to protect your country, or to protect innocent people....(the police have to use a degree of controlled violence almost every day).

Let alone violent and realistic - I don't know about anyone else, but I can't remember the last time I had to run around with a pulse rifle and flamethrower stuck down the back of my trousers whilst trying to avoid a nasty xenomorph.
Or for that matter trying to cast spells and unlock treasure chests and break open barrels to get stuff out of them.

I would however put forward the argument that if violence in video games is so bad, then why not go after violence on TV and in films, let alone those bad bad books...
Most video games where there is violence don't have it anything like as realistic as many TV shows or films.

I would also point out that in far more games you're playing as a "good guy" than a bad guy, and even in some games how you play it decides the outcome.
For example being forgiving, protecting an innocent, or helping someone out in many RPG's will give you a more positive ending, and often reward you later in the game (IE in Bioshock if you save the little sisters you don't get as good an immediate result, but a better long term one).
Whilst playing an "evil" character who works to short term gain and works against the innocent characters can result in you finding the game much harder to play as things like NPC shop keepers don't want to do business with you (or charge you more), and town guards (police) start to be a problem.

Dumbe

Nilrem wrote: »

There is a world of difference between violent and evil...

For example call of duty is usually based on some sort of military conflict (hence the title...).
I don't think anyone would disagree that war is bad, but fighting to protect your country, or to protect innocent people....(the police have to use a degree of controlled violence almost every day).

Let alone violent and realistic - I don't know about anyone else, but I can't remember the last time I had to run around with a pulse rifle and flamethrower stuck down the back of my trousers whilst trying to avoid a nasty xenomorph.
Or for that matter trying to cast spells and unlock treasure chests and break open barrels to get stuff out of them.

I would however put forward the argument that if violence in video games is so bad, then why not go after violence on TV and in films, let alone those bad bad books...
Most video games where there is violence don't have it anything like as realistic as many TV shows or films.

I would also point out that in far more games you're playing as a "good guy" than a bad guy, and even in some games how you play it decides the outcome.
For example being forgiving, protecting an innocent, or helping someone out in many RPG's will give you a more positive ending, and often reward you later in the game (IE in Bioshock if you save the little sisters you don't get as good an immediate result, but a better long term one).
Whilst playing an "evil" character who works to short term gain and works against the innocent characters can result in you finding the game much harder to play as things like NPC shop keepers don't want to do business with you (or charge you more), and town guards (police) start to be a problem.

I would agree with what you say for adults but the issue for me is similar to tv shows, movies etc.. I have no problem with adults watching what they want but I believe it is right to protect young children from violenence and what is merely violent to adults could be viewed as evil if shown to young children..

E.g nightmares , problems sleeping, fear of losing family etc...Hence age ratings and a watershed on tv before which inappropriate content is not shown.

WiggyDiggyPoo

Dumbe wrote: »

.........

Going through this list I am not sure how anyone gt only 2 being based on evil and encouraging bad behavior

2 grand theft auto versions. Theft is evil no?
Call of duty? Involves shooting people?
Toomb raider?
Aliens colonial marines ? Violent
Need for speed ?
Diabloo 3...
Splinter cell


This seems rather more then two and a high percentage if you don't count the sports and very young child ones such as Disney infinity

I realised when I read back on my posts I was getting a little pedantic when I started challenging on the top 20, so I deliberately didnt go back and break them down as I wanted to keep the thread relatively light hearted

But, to be fair you have asked so with a smile and not trying to be argumentative and I even changed my mind on a couple

1. FIFA 14
Game based on Football
2. Grand Theft Auto 5
Game based on simulating criminal life, some aspects of that life may involve violent acts by either the player or NPCs but as a whole the game is not based on 'Evil'
3. Minecraft: Xbox 360 Edition
Game based on 3d Lego (yes simplistic but how else can you describe it), only evil if trod on at night in bare feet.
4. Pro Evolution Soccer 2014
Game based on Football, only evil to fans of game #1
5. The Last of Us
Game based on, survival. I'd expect some acts committed during this game could be violent or questionable, but the game is based on an outbreak of disease not evil.
6. Disney Infinity
Game based on Disney, features some supposedly evil villains are included but they all talk a bit funny and have been defeated at least once already.
7. Splinter Cell: Blacklist
Game based on terrorism driven by a political goal. Evilness of both sides can be debated :cool:
8. Saints Row 4
Game based on Alien Invasion, not clear if Aliens are evil or just upset with humans.
9. Diablo 3
EVIL!:eek: AFAIK you have to battle the devil (Diablo) along with a bunch of other evil creatures. Game based on evil.
10. Rayman Legends
EVIL!:eek: I'm adding this one in now as well, just read the plot and you have to rescue princess's kidnapped by nightmares, then battle something called "The giant cloud of pure nightmare". Sounds pretty evil.
11. Call of Duty: Black Ops 2
Game based on terrorism driven by a political goal. Evilness of both sides can be debated :cool:
12. Kingdom Hearts HD 1.5 Remix
Don't know. This is actually three games, some Disney characters are involved so could be evil.
13. LEGO Batman 2: DC Super Heroes
EVIL!:eek:Batman (the hero) has to battle various enemies of his some of which (depending on which background you choose from) have done some pretty heinous stuff.
14. Grand Theft Auto 4
Game based on simulating criminal life, some aspects of that life may involve violent acts by either the player or NPCs but as a whole the game is not based on 'Evil'
15. Max Payne 3
Game based on revenge and kidnapping, motivated by loss and greed not evil.
16. Need For Speed: Most Wanted
Game based on racing cars, a criminal act may be performed such as speeding or failing to stop but no loss of life or injury occurs.
17. Skylanders Giants
Don't know. Game is based on you defeating the villian but wether is is because they are evil, or just not friends is not clear.
18. Aliens: Colonial Marines
Game is based on Peter Weyland being a complete and utter git, but he's not evil just greedy and selfish. Aliens are not evil as they simply want to reproduce and survive.
19. Tomb Raider
Game based on surviving an island inhabited by cultists that worship a dead queen, weird but not evil.
20. Animal Crossing: New Leaf
Criminal but not evil as you appear to be impersonating the mayor of a town, some decisions may be questionable but their evilness is low (even putting up taxes!)

So... Where I'm kind of going with all that is there are many things a game is based on, but evil is not normally the main driving factor in a game.

Nilrem

Unfortunately the parents most likely to complain about violent video games etc are also the ones most likely to completely ignore the large red warning on the box and say "it's just a game", and to get shirty when a store employee suggests that it's not suitable for little Timmy.
Let alone the abuse some cashiers get if they refuse to sell to little Timmy (obeying the law), when the parent arrives back, or if the cashier has the temerity to stand up to the spirit of the law and refuse to sell a game to someone who might be over the age limit, but is obviously not the parent and is with someone they refused to serve because they were obviously under it.

I'm not saying some people are thick, but I've seen enough arguments between staff and customers to know that I pity the staff in a lot of games, and home video stores, especially when a new "highly anticipated" 18 rated game is coming out.


Yes we need to protect the children, but if a game is rated at say 18, the retail staff stick to the law and don't sell it to someone under 18 (most are pretty well clued up these days, and even where they aren't the tills flag it now), then it's not the industries fault if a child gets it.
Usually it's the fault of the parent/guardian who has completely ignored and bypassed every effort put in place to stop children getting hold of the title and bought it for them/not put it out of reach.

The only way to take things further than they are now is basically to require you to log in to the game every time you want to play it, having created some form of account that requires say a credit card for ID (and we all know how well that works - look at the kiddies on xbox live playing 18 games, or the number of complaints from parents who have let their kids roam free on their ipad having left it logged into to their itunes account), or to stop people selling the games.

Personally I've sort of reached the point where I'm sick of the whole "society must protect my children for me, I can't be bothered to do it myself" thing, people need to take responsibility for keeping an eye on what their little darlings are up to, and for their own actions. That means if they don't want their kids to play unsuitable games it's their job (not mine) to know what they're playing, and more importantly to not buy them the game in the first place, or if they've bought it for themselves to put it out of reach - and if they can't trust their kid not to find their copy and use it anyway they've got two options, either they don't buy the games for themselves, or they put them away securely (you can buy a lock box big enough to hold DVD's in paper slips for about a tenner) and learn about things like account security on their PC/games console.

Sorry if I'm ranting a bit, ratings and the ignorance of people towards them has been a long standing bugbear of mine, it comes from too many years reading papers and listening to politicians (and "concerned parents") complaining about things "corrupting our youth" and how "things need to be done", when usually when you look at what's happened, the law is sufficient to protect the kids, and the thing that needs to be done is for the parent/guardian to actually pay some attention to what their kid is doing rather than blindly assuming that despite the warnings TV/video games are not one size fits all babysitters.

greektony

Nilrem wrote: »

I'm not saying some people are thick, but I've seen enough arguments between staff and customers to know that I pity the staff in a lot of games, and home video stores, especially when a new "highly anticipated" 18 rated game is coming out.

I had to stop reading after that comment. In those few words you have undermined whatever the rest of your argument was :beer:

System

greektony wrote: »

I had to stop reading after that comment. In those few words you have undermined whatever the rest of your argument was :beer:

So you disagree and you think people are thick?

It's a strange thing to take offence to!

Nilrem

greektony wrote: »

I had to stop reading after that comment. In those few words you have undermined whatever the rest of your argument was :beer:

Well ok, maybe I should have put it as some people are thick?
Or at least wilfully ignorant of fairly common bits of law no matter how well advertised or how obvious something is* (when you buy something with "Only suitable for persons 18 or over" you sort of lose any right to complain it's not suitable for kids).

I mean given the way that I've seen people ignore the BBFC rating on stuff with blanket statements like "but it's a...." or seen store staff ranted at by a parent for following the law, it's hard to not come to the conclusion it's often the parents direct fault for the kids getting hold of it.

The law is there, the items are rated as per the law, the items carry the rating as per the law, the retailers generally follow the law by refusing sale to people who look under the age (and indeed many retailers go beyond their legal requirements to cover themselves by following policies such as "look 21" or "look 25").
Where it tends to fall over is the parents/guardians wilfully ignoring it, leaving the stuff out where their kids can get to it, or refusing to pay any attention to what their kids are doing.

Sorry, as I said in my previous post classification and awareness/ignorance of it is a bugbear
As it seems that no matter what is done there will always be people who ignore it and then get upset when it turns out something that was marked as unsuitable for kids, was surprisingly unsuitable for kids.

*I wonder how big the rating would have to be to be noticed by some people - I know in Australia they've been forced to go with horrible logo's that take up a good portion of the front of the case (it's bigger than the video information box normally found on the back of the DVD), and people still ignore it. The serious video buyers hate it, as it makes any cover look awful, and the publishers dislike it as it ruins their work at getting a nice looking release (why bother with good cover art if you've got a huge, jarring logo taking up a big chunk of the cover) and results in serious collectors more likely to buy from abroad to get a version that is often cheaper, and has a nice cover (its also self defeating to a degree as some of the publishers have from memory tried "bands", to comply with the law they put a paper "band" around the case with the legal markings, but the consumer can take it off once they open the cellophane, thus after it's opened there may be no ratings, or much smaller ratings on the item). And the Aussies still get people complaining they didn't know something was unsuitable for little Brucie.