DD fraud - any way of finding out who?

jonesMUFCforever

Can't help feeling you are cutting your nose to spite your face. A current account that does not allow D/D is of no use. What next all debit card transactions to be authorised - it will not happen.
There are safeguards to put you back in the position before any unauthorised transactions are debited.
(Also make sure you never ever give anybody one of your cheques as you are giving them your sort code account number and a copy of your signature - imagine the damage they could do! SIC)

kazzah60

jonesMUFCforever wrote: »

Can't help feeling you are cutting your nose to spite your face. A current account that does not allow D/D is of no use. What next all debit card transactions to be authorised - it will not happen.
There are safeguards to put you back in the position before any unauthorised transactions are debited.
(Also make sure you never ever give anybody one of your cheques as you are giving them your sort code account number and a copy of your signature - imagine the damage they could do! SIC)

we don't have debit cards -we are aware that if a debit card is cloned ( no doubt you'll tell me THAT is impossible too!! ) that the whole account could be cleared out and that it can take weeks for the banks to refund the money - our organisation can't afford that to happen.

no matter how "stupid" you believe I am being- I am only trying to protect money donated to our charity

there are ENOUGH fraudulent charities out there claiming to be donating funds to all sorts of recipients, who never see a penny of donated funds - this sort of thing can destroy the public's faith in charities

honestly who would have thought that trying to PROTECT money possibly donated by MSE'rs - would have opened me up to such ridicule and dismissal?

kirkbyinfurnesslad_2

You have taken it all out of proportion

kazzah60

kirkbyinfurnesslad wrote: »

You have taken it all out of proportion

would you be saying that if you thought it was your donated money that was missing ?

although I won't be worrying any more

kirkbyinfurnesslad_2

kazzah60 wrote: »

would you be saying that if you thought it was your donated money that was missing ?

although I won't be worrying any more

No because it would all come out in the wash

Archi_Bald

kirkbyinfurnesslad wrote: »

You have taken it all out of proportion

Totally agree.

If the same amount of energy had been spent on checking the charity's bank statements regularly as kazzah60 is now throwing at trying to improve a perfectly good system, the wrong DD would have been spotted months / years ago. And should anything like this happen again in future, regular checking of the accounts will immediately identify such issues.

I do wonder what other, non DD, transactions have happened on the charity's account whilst it was left unchecked for close to 2 years.

Anyway, the DD guarantee ensures that every penny comes back to the charity, so there's no debate to be had over lost money.

Hominu

kazzah60 wrote: »

we don't have debit cards -we are aware that if a debit card is cloned that the whole account could be cleared out and that it can take weeks for the banks to refund the money - our organisation can't afford that to happen.

Sounds like you don't want a current account but rather a savings account. So instead of opening another current account for your DDs, move your existing cash into a savings account and keep your existing account for your DDs. Don't worry, you can still pay bills and setup standing orders from some types of savings accounts, but you can't setup DDs or have a debit card, which seems like exactly what your after.

Secondly, fire your accountant. They are obviously incompetent for not noticing the rogue DD in the first place. How many other fraudulent payments have been made without your knowledge?

kazzah60

Archi_Bald wrote: »

Totally agree.

If the same amount of energy had been spent on checking the charity's bank statements regularly as kazzah60 is now throwing at trying to improve a perfectly good system, the wrong DD would have been spotted months / years ago. And should anything like this happen again in future, regular checking of the accounts will immediately identify such issues.

I do wonder what other, non DD, transactions have happened on the charity's account whilst it was left unchecked for close to 2 years.

Anyway, the DD guarantee ensures that every penny comes back to the charity, so there's no debate to be had over lost money.

I did post a reply to this - but it seems to have vanished into the ether- so I will answer


Our organisation is fully compliant with Charity Commission regulations which require us to submit audited accounts at the end of our financial year

Our accounts were NOT left "unchecked for close to two years "
if you had read through the posts you would see that the first transaction took place in August 2012 at the beginning of our financial year ( year end is 31st July) and the second transaction took place in June 2013 - which is 10 months later and STILL within the same financial year

It is during our audit that the accountant spotted the rogue transactions - therefore still within the same financial period.

Yes we SHOULD have spotted the DD - but it is a very busy account with a lot of transactions taking place and our volunteer secretary missed it - hence why we have our accounts audited

I am now putting procedures into place so that a third trustee can triple check the transactions to verify them.
We are all volunteers and none of us are trained accountants - I known that ignorance is no defence but having this happen once we are now ensuring it doesn't happen again

I don't know if you volunteer for any kind of charity- but clearly if you have time on your hands then you could volunteer with us and give us the benefit of your expertise

magpiecottage

I thought I would go back to the original post.

kazzah60 wrote: »

we have found two Direct debit Instructions totalling £250 payable to the RAC which have been set up fraudulently.

To be fraud the perpetrator must have committed the act with the INTENTION of making a gain for themselves or another person OR with the INTENTION of causing a loss to another person or of exposing another person to the risk of a loss.

As you have alleged such an offence has been committed, what is your evidence that the RAC has acted with such an intention?

i understand the principals of Data protection etc - but this person has enjoyed TWO years free RAC cover at the expense of our charity and I would like to ensure it's not a volunteer who works within the charity who has set the DD up.

Principles, not principals.

More importantly the data is personal.

They claim that FCA rules don't permit them to disclose the name of the person - I have looked at the FCA website and can't find this information anywhere

Principle 6, among other rules would appear to require them to withhold personal data unless you can demonstrate that it should not be.

kazzah60

[B][/B]To be fraud the perpetrator must have committed the act with the INTENTION of making a gain for themselves or another person OR with the INTENTION of causing a loss to another person or of exposing another person to the risk of a loss.

As you have alleged such an offence has been committed, what is your evidence that the RAC has acted with such an intention?

I Naively assumed that the person setting the DD up might have contacted the RAC to let them know their DD had not been taken from their account on at least one of the occasions

Principles, not principals.

pardon me for making a schoolgirl error with my spelling, I can see that it has made a huge difference to my query and that is obviously why I am being ridiculed

Principle 6, among other rules would appear to require them to withhold personal data unless you can demonstrate that it should not be.

can you post a link to these principLEs please?