DD fraud - any way of finding out who?

kazzah60

pinkdalek wrote: »

"The money has not been authorised to be debited by anyone in the charity that i know of- therefore it has been fraudulently taken out of our account"

No. It has been set up on your account in error. You are assuming someone has deliberatley stolen monies from the account, when you have no proof. Look at the facts if there had been fraud on your account there would have been considerably more transactions processed on it than a DD to RAC over the period of time.

RAC probably don't give a hoot about the lost monies, they will put it down to human error and if there is a trend will instigate new procedures to stop this in the future. Maybe complain to RAC for all your stress and who knows they may even make a token donation to your charity.

and what proof do I ( or you) have that it is an "error" - none
I am well aware the RAC do not give a hoot - they have made that abundantly clear

for all you or I know for a fact - there may well be a person out there setting up DD's with a variety of companies and getting all their household bills paid this way

I agree it's not likely - but when you are responsible for someone elses monies, then i feel a duty to investigate as much as I can

Dr_Cuckoo3

Your bank will know the name used to set up the direct debit , some banks eg Cumberland Building Society will reject the DD if the name is not in the exact format they hold eg initial rather than first name

magpiecottage

You can apply for RAC membership online AND set up the DD at the same time.

If the applicant simply mistyped one digit there is no way the RAC would know.

If the OP's bank then paid on a mismatch of name and account number the fault rests with their bank, not with the RAC.

Of course the cOPper could argue that the RAC member was a "black kettle" for not checking their account statements and noticing the error before now.

kazzah60

magpiecottage wrote: »

You can apply for RAC membership online AND set up the DD at the same time.

If the applicant simply mistyped one digit there is no way the RAC would know.

If the OP's bank then paid on a mismatch of name and account number the fault rests with their bank, not with the RAC.

Of course the cOPper could argue that the RAC member was a "black kettle" for not checking their account statements and noticing the error before now.

actually the RAC operate a paperless DD system called AUDDIS which quite clearly states that the RAC are responsible for verifying the customers details here is the reply to the question about potential fraud:

It's extremely unlikely because you have responsibility for verifying your customers' identities via methods such as credit reference checks, cross-referencing with the electoral register or your own historical customer records. Furthermore, before joining AUDDIS, you must satisfy your bank about the checking procedures you intend to adopt.

http://www.bacs.co.uk/Bacs/Businesses/FAQ/Pages/AUDDIS.asp
x

so it seems that the RAC are partially responsible - I know our accountant should have picked it up too- and our secretary so I have now put measures in place to avoid a repeat of this
(hopefully) but I do feel the RAC should also bear some of the responsibility for their failure to verify the applicants details

BMN

kazzah60 wrote: »

actually the RAC operate a paperless DD system called AUDDIS which quite clearly states that the RAC are responsible for verifying the customers details here is the reply to the question about potential fraud:

It's extremely unlikely because you have responsibility for verifying your customers' identities via methods such as credit reference checks, cross-referencing with the electoral register or your own historical customer records. Furthermore, before joining AUDDIS, you must satisfy your bank about the checking procedures you intend to adopt.

http://www.bacs.co.uk/Bacs/Businesses/FAQ/Pages/AUDDIS.asp
x

so it seems that the RAC are partially responsible - I know our accountant should have picked it up too- and our secretary so I have now put measures in place to avoid a repeat of this
(hopefully) but I do feel the RAC should also bear some of the responsibility for their failure to verify the applicants details

Like you have just quoted it states that they need to verify their customers identities.
However, they can't verify the sort code and account number given to them even if they have successfully identified their customer.

It works on the basis that a customer who has been successfully identified is unlikely to give somebody elses sort code and account number because it would be traced back to them. And also because the Direct Debit Scheme is in place should a direct debit be wrongfully setup on your account.

kazzah60

BMN wrote: »

Like you have just quoted it states that they need to verify their customers identities.
However, they can't verify the sort code and account number given to them even if they have successfully identified their customer.

in response to the question
"how can the account numbers the customer write on their DDi's be validated?"
AUDDIS states;

you are advised to carry out modulus checking within your systems, which will identify invalid bank sort code and account number combinations for most banks. If this isn't done, AUDDIS Instructions which fail the modulus check performed by the Bacs service, are returned to you and will not be passed to the paying bank.

kirkbyinfurnesslad_2

Dr_Cuckoo3 wrote: »

Your bank will know the name used to set up the direct debit , some banks eg Cumberland Building Society will reject the DD if the name is not in the exact format they hold eg initial rather than first name

Really ?, thats quite interesting most dont check, but then i suppose with them being so small they must be pay attention to DD's being set up

Dr_Cuckoo3

kirkbyinfurnesslad wrote: »

Really ?, thats quite interesting most dont check, but then i suppose with them being so small they must be pay attention to DD's being set up

yes - it's because they are small , I have other banks that don't check misspellings etc

It shows that the bank is in receipt of the details though

BMN

kazzah60 wrote: »

in response to the question
"how can the account numbers the customer write on their DDi's be validated?"
AUDDIS states;

you are advised to carry out modulus checking within your systems, which will identify invalid bank sort code and account number combinations for most banks. If this isn't done, AUDDIS Instructions which fail the modulus check performed by the Bacs service, are returned to you and will not be passed to the paying bank.

I didn't make myself clear in the above post.
These checks don't confirm the customers details with the sort code and account number they have given.

Thrugelmir

but this person has enjoyed TWO years free RAC cover at the expense of our charity

There's are old saying. People who live in glass houses shouldn't throw
stones.

I would have thought that there should have been adequate procedures in place to account for and verify the legitimacy of all monies paid out of the bank account. That's where the focus of attention should be on your part.