double booked edinburgh fringe tickets. no refund or exchange

went on the edfringe.com website to purchase 2 tickets. I had bought 2 tickets numerous times in the previous 4 days without any problems. however on this particular occasion after entering all the card details - when i clicked on the final payment button - rather than getting a successful payment confirmation screen with the transaction number - i instead got the message "basket is empty"

on all the previous occasions i bought tickets - i was presented with a payment confirmation message and transaction number. Since on this occasion i didnt get that message - i went through the whole purchasing process again. again i got basket is empty message. at this stage i gave up.

however the next morning while checking my emails i noticed two messages saying 2 tickets had been successfully purchased. So i now had 4 tickets. i immediately phoned the box office and they said to send an email to customer services explaining what had happened.

when i went to collect the tickets from one of the venues later that morning - i explained what had happened and asked whether i should collect all 4 tickets if i was going to dispute the payment for the two i didnt want. They told me not to collect the two tickets i didnt want if i was going to dispute it.

after trying to get my money back edinburgh fringe are refusing to reimburse me.!they started off saying it was my word against the guys in the ticket office and so cannot be sure incorrect advice was given. however they are now saying the location i collected the tickets up from was a separate organisation so they are not liable anywaythey say they have a strict no refund or exchange policy - but that i should not feel too bad because the money has gone to the performersin fact they insinuate that to get my money back it would have to be recovered from the performers we paid twice to see

i have two grievences with edfringe.!

1) the website was faulty and did not inform me i had purchased tickets when i had. is the fact they sent an email sufficient?

2) i was given incorrect advice at collection point. If i had been told about strict no refund policy i would have collected them and sold them on.

they say the terms and conditions on the website explain the no refund policy. Would i be able to challenge them in the small claims court, or have any protection from my credit card company

i feel i have lost out without really doing anything wrong
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Replies

  • Voyager2002Voyager2002 Forumite
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    Dispute it with your credit card provider.
  • BuzbyBuzby Forumite
    8.3K Posts
    Absolutely - it was a duplicated transaction seconds after the original, for the same amount, same merchant and venue.

    Your card provider will refund this.
  • tir21tir21 Forumite
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    Buzby wrote: »
    Absolutely - it was a duplicated transaction seconds after the original, for the same amount, same merchant and venue.

    Your card provider will refund this.

    thanks but my card provider says that edfringe have met all the requirements laid out in their terms and conditions - because these state that after purchase there will be no refund or exchanges
  • BuzbyBuzby Forumite
    8.3K Posts
    They're so wrong - get back into them pronto and provide the transaction time (including seconds) and date.

    This proves positive that when married with an identical amount, that the transaction was a duplication and not an additional purchase.

    If you cannot resolve this by phone - send a letter.
  • So much for section whatever it is.
  • BuzbyBuzby Forumite
    8.3K Posts
    Section 75 is irrelevant to this scenario - it is for credit cards only, but the issue is one of a website fault causing a duplicate transaction, and easily identified by the card company.
  • Buzby...the OP states they used a credit card

    'Would i be able to challenge them in the small claims court, or have any protection from my credit card company'

    I've got a similar issue (with my honeymoon bought through expedia), mine is with a credit card and my bank won't do anything for 7 days although I don't have anything to show for the 'transaction' except a 0 credit balance. Apparently they say after this has passed they can do an investigation, if you haven't recieved the goods and can proove it was the fault of the company the bank can challenge and I'm guessing they'd have more welly?
  • StuC75StuC75 Forumite
    2.1K Posts
    Difficult to confirm if it was a true website error (may have been the OP's Connection?).. And without seeing the screenshots of what they saw its difficult to corroborate the sequence of what happened.

    Many sites do advise you about what to do if it times out \ errors to avoid a duplicate transaction or payment being made (i.e. not press refresh etc)...

    In the Op's case the 'basket' was emptied, so had that been me I would have most likely thought that it had completed - and checked if there was a 'Your Orders' section to see if it was showing in there.. Along with checking online banking to see if there looked to be a pending transaction \ emails for any confirmation being sent..

    A couple of minutes between transactions may not be a clear duplicate - but rather someone buying tickets for themselves, then deciding to buy for someone else wanting to go..

    Would assume that they have there T&C's checked for enforceability...
    Buzby wrote: »
    Section 75 is irrelevant to this scenario - it is for credit cards only, but the issue is one of a website fault causing a duplicate transaction, and easily identified by the card company.
  • tir21tir21 Forumite
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    Seventh Anniversary 500 Posts Combo Breaker
    StuC75 wrote: »
    Difficult to confirm if it was a true website error (may have been the OP's Connection?).. And without seeing the screenshots of what they saw its difficult to corroborate the sequence of what happened.

    Many sites do advise you about what to do if it times out \ errors to avoid a duplicate transaction or payment being made (i.e. not press refresh etc)...

    In the Op's case the 'basket' was emptied, so had that been me I would have most likely thought that it had completed - and checked if there was a 'Your Orders' section to see if it was showing in there.. Along with checking online banking to see if there looked to be a pending transaction \ emails for any confirmation being sent..

    A couple of minutes between transactions may not be a clear duplicate - but rather someone buying tickets for themselves, then deciding to buy for someone else wanting to go..

    Would assume that they have there T&C's checked for enforceability...


    thanks stu. I agree that with 7 minutes between first and second ticket purchases - it could be argued that i wanted to buy two more tickets for two other people (although why i would then leave the two extra tickets at the box office the next morning would be difficult to explain)

    with regards to the basket being empty - this could be seen as showing the sale had gone through - but the basket was also empty before i started the process - so it could also be seen as evidence the sale had not gone through

    Are websites under any obligation to actually state that a purchase has been successfully made?

    As i said earlier on all the other occasions i purchased from the edinburgh fringe website - i was presented with a page informing me my purchase had been successful with a transaction number.

    Is this type of confirmation just a nicety? Is the fact the basket was shown as being empty (when it was previously shown as having a quantity of 2) sufficient explanation that a purchase has been made?

    I think this is a pretty legally grey area that needs tightening up
  • edited 15 October 2013 at 2:36PM
    tir21tir21 Forumite
    1K Posts
    Seventh Anniversary 500 Posts Combo Breaker
    edited 15 October 2013 at 2:36PM
    the letter i got from my credit card company says

    "we operate under guidelines set by visa and mastercard international. Under these guidelines, when processing a chargeback claim, we have to show that the retailer has breached their contract with our customer and we are required to supply certain documentation to substantiate this.

    When your transaction shows an error, it is the customers responsibility to check that the transaction has not went through (sic). If the retailers contract states that there are no refunds, it would be to the retailers discretion whether to refund or not. Unfortunately, due to this, we cannot process your chargeback claim."
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