The First Minister's behaviour

The_Hurricane

GlynD wrote: »

The Orange Order is sectarian, that's why. It's the same with Freemasons (except they're not sectarian, they're a secret society) although the law has been relaxed for them: it used to be they had to register with the local magistrate.

Sectarian?? One could argue that anyone belonging to a church/chapel is sectarian.

lazer

The_Hurricane wrote: »

Sectarian?? One could argue that anyone belonging to a church/chapel is sectarian.

Recognise this
"An Orangeman should have a sincere love and veneration for his Heavenly Father, a humble and steadfast faith in Jesus Christ, the Saviour of mankind, believing in Him as the only Mediator between God and man. He should cultivate truth and justice, brotherly kindness and charity, devotion and piety, concord and unity, and obedience to the laws; his deportment should be gentle and compassionate, kind and courteous; he should seek the society of the virtuous, and avoid that of the evil; he should honour and diligently study the Holy Scriptures, and make them the rule of his faith and practice; he should love, uphold, and defend the Protestant religion, and sincerely desire and endeavour to propagate its doctrines and precepts; he should strenuously oppose the fatal errors and doctrines of the Church of Rome and other Non-Reformed faiths, and scrupulously avoid countenancing (by his presence or otherwise) any act or ceremony of Roman Catholic or other non-Reformed Worship; he should, by all lawful means, resist the ascendancy, encroachments, and the extension of their power, ever abstaining from all uncharitable words, actions, or sentiments towards all those who do not practice the Reformed and Christian Faith; he should remember to keep holy the Sabbath Day, and attend the public worship of God, and diligently train up his offspring, and all under his control, in the fear of God, and in the Protestant faith; he should never take the name of God in vain, but abstain from all cursing and profane language, and use every opportunity of discouraging those, and all other sinful practices, in others; his conduct should be guided by wisdom and prudence, and marked by honesty, temperance, and sobriety, the glory of God and the welfare of man, the honour of his Sovereign, and the good of his country, should be the motives of his actions.".

The orange order is not a church, it is a open to all anyone from any Protestant Church.

Members of the ornage order can and have been expelled for attending Catholic Church services.

If an organisation that forbids people from attending weddings and funerals of friends (Who happen to be Catholic) isn't sectarian I don't know what is.

I also don't think you are allowed to join even if you are protestant but have married a Catholic.

duggan1

In my humble view anyone professing a love for 'God' or an equivalent deity has shown extremely poor judgement and shouldn't be allowed near public office...

That aside, the influence of such organisations as the orange order on the workings of Stormont only go to prove that the political system is unworkable and cannot be in the best interests of the people of NI.

The_Hurricane

duggan1 wrote: »

In my humble view anyone professing a love for 'God' or an equivalent deity has shown extremely poor judgement and shouldn't be allowed near public office...

That aside, the influence of such organisations as the orange order on the workings of Stormont only go to prove that the political system is unworkable and cannot be in the best interests of the people of NI.

Well you did use the word humble.

Cotta

This will be my last post on this subject as this thread seems to have simply degenerated into being highly insulting to people who have a religious belief.

It also illustrates some of our own shortcomings as occupants of this very small island in that those from a Protestant persuasion are unable and unwilling to accept all things Gaelic while those from a Catholic persuasion are unable or unwilling to accept all things Orange.

warmhands.coldheart

Cotta wrote: »

... those from a Catholic persuasion are unable or unwilling to accept all things Orange.

Is it not EE now anyway ?:o

GlynD

highrisklowreturn wrote: »

Usual lies being told on this threat by the RC front.

Perhaps you would have found the north less hostile had not your co religionists and political supporters in the south been a little less inclined to shooting, bombing, burning out, land-grabbing, discriminating, victimising against every non-Catholic in the state.

How does it feel to know that even if you get a united Ireland your church and religion are utterly dead and dormant with no one to protect you from mass immigration, child abortion, limitless drugs, alcohol and pornography (all English and American ideas brought in to your country because they run your media - the modern equivalent of running your political system), the future complete destruction of gaelic and its prohibition by fine gael in the irish government etc etc etc

Your people in the north are an anachronism, the recent disgusting show in ardoyne for Thomas Begley exemplifying exactly why you should perhaps (text removed by MSE Forum Team) en masse to Sarajevo or suweto or somewhere else that would be congenial to your prejudices.

I'm afraid I could never agree with your views. You show far too little understanding of the history of our nation and our state. You should certainly not be bringing views such as the ones you posted to this thread. Reconciliation and oneness should be the objective of every citizen of Northern Ireland now and you're not going to get that through blaming every member of the RC church in the Province for what went on over the last 40 years. As I've said before: the ascendancy is long finished.

Cotta wrote: »

This will be my last post on this subject as this thread seems to have simply degenerated into being highly insulting to people who have a religious belief.

It also illustrates some of our own shortcomings as occupants of this very small island in that those from a Protestant persuasion are unable and unwilling to accept all things Gaelic while those from a Catholic persuasion are unable or unwilling to accept all things Orange.

I'd be disappointed if you didn't post again because I like your viewpoint and only by showing others that we can have civilised discussion whilst sharing different views can we move forward. I don't know what religion you are and I don't care. It's high time the rest of our population started sharing that particular viewpoint too.

As was said earlier in the thread: we've all grown up with a certain amount of Irishness. We've also got a certain amount of Britishness, whether we like it or not. We are a very unique part of both nations and we should be embracing that shared culture as something special, not as something which should be changed to feature more of the fictitious cultures which have been promulgated by both sides.

We are Northern Irish and it's time we were all proud to say so.

Certain organisations like the AOH and Loyal Orders need to move with the times. Their colourful parades bring tourists over here and as far as I'm concerned that should be the limit of their input into modern society. We don't need anyone to protect us other than our police force which, thank God, at last shows the kind of balance we've always striven for. The day will come when Prods play Gaelic sports and why not? GAA is a great day out for the family the way soccer used to be.

The big thing we've got to get rid of th is the Protestant fear of a United Ireland. Either by agreeing to permanent federalisation or by uniting the nation in a way which suits both sides. One thing's for sure, it's easier to drive an hour down the road to Dublin for shared hospital facilities than it is to go to England.

I keep saying it but integration is the key. Those of us who never accepted polarisation and don't live in public housing estates are largely integrated anyway. We meet in hotels, each other's homes and other neutral venues where we aren't likely to encounter sectarianism. The day will come however when it will be possible for RC's to stand and watch an Orange parade the way they used to in the 1960's before the most recent bout of troubles started.

Maybe we'll even have an Orange Lodge up the Falls Road! Now wouldn't that be wonderful? "The Rising Son's of Gerry Adams"

tara747

lazer wrote: »

Agreed, I base my vote on all of a parties policies not simply on Nationalism or unionism which IMO is not the key issue and have never understood how people think that it is the most important issue I value education, health, the economy, peace etc way before my nationality.

A United Ireland is not going to happen without a referendum, the referendum won't pass unless a majority want it to pass so who we vote for at local or national elections won't affect the situation at all.

Yup. Completely agree.

I'm from 'a RC background' and I couldn't give a flying toot whether there's ever a united Ireland. Most of my friends, family and acquaintances feel the same.

GlynD wrote: »

It would be doomed from the start.


The "garlic" is on purpose and is just a flippancy.

The north looks different from the rest of Ireland because it is different. Even most nationalists here are descended from Scots - and that's why it's different. To change it takes away from the culture of the entire community.

Gaelic games were never banned in Northern Ireland. Not even "practically". The reason the Unionist culture is so prominent is because there have always been more unionists. Irish culture has always been prominent as well, just to a lesser extent.

I'm all for a fair and equal society but we're not going to achieve it by revisionist history. I'm also very much in favour of keeping Irish townland names in their standard form of usage. I'm not into the orange flag waving thing either.

Essentially I'm not into either side shoving their culture (real or imagined) down the other's throat.


I didn't spend that long away and I was always back her on a regular basis. I have noticed changes. Some I agree with some I don't.

Which changes do you agree with, and which do you not? Asking purely out of interest as I value your views.

Oh, and I totally agree with the bit in bold.

The_Hurricane wrote: »

Why? The GAA is rampant within the PSNI and Integrated education.

Rampant? You make it sound like influenza. :rotfl:

tara747

glynd wrote: »

i'm afraid i could never agree with your views. You show far too little understanding of the history of our nation and our state. You should certainly not be bringing views such as the ones you posted to this thread. Reconciliation and oneness should be the objective of every citizen of northern ireland now and you're not going to get that through blaming every member of the rc church in the province for what went on over the last 40 years. As i've said before: The ascendancy is long finished.



I'd be disappointed if you didn't post again because i like your viewpoint and only by showing others that we can have civilised discussion whilst sharing different views can we move forward. I don't know what religion you are and i don't care. It's high time the rest of our population started sharing that particular viewpoint too.

As was said earlier in the thread: We've all grown up with a certain amount of irishness. We've also got a certain amount of britishness, whether we like it or not. We are a very unique part of both nations and we should be embracing that shared culture as something special, not as something which should be changed to feature more of the fictitious cultures which have been promulgated by both sides.

We are northern irish and it's time we were all proud to say so.

Certain organisations like the aoh and loyal orders need to move with the times. Their colourful parades bring tourists over here and as far as i'm concerned that should be the limit of their input into modern society. We don't need anyone to protect us other than our police force which, thank god, at last shows the kind of balance we've always striven for. The day will come when prods play gaelic sports and why not? Gaa is a great day out for the family the way soccer used to be.

The big thing we've got to get rid of th is the protestant fear of a united ireland. Either by agreeing to permanent federalisation or by uniting the nation in a way which suits both sides. One thing's for sure, it's easier to drive an hour down the road to dublin for shared hospital facilities than it is to go to england.

I keep saying it but integration is the key. Those of us who never accepted polarisation and don't live in public housing estates are largely integrated anyway. We meet in hotels, each other's homes and other neutral venues where we aren't likely to encounter sectarianism. The day will come however when it will be possible for rc's to stand and watch an orange parade the way they used to in the 1960's before the most recent bout of troubles started.

Maybe we'll even have an orange lodge up the falls road! Now wouldn't that be wonderful? "the rising son's of gerry adams" :d

:beer: ..................

The_Hurricane

tara747 wrote: »

Rampant? You make it sound like influenza. :rotfl:

To me it's as bad, I find it offensive and quite threatening - why does it need to be shoved down my throat?