Fraud ?? Help- Deceased FIL - Aviva - Group Protected Rights Investment Account

GeneHunt_2

My FIL died in May aged 82 and as far as my wife (his executor) knew she had claimed everything she was entitled to from his estate.

Her father received a state pension based on his earnings. As far as she knows he always "opted in" when it was anything to do with pensions

This morning she received a letter from Aviva (via a redirection from her deceased Dad's address). At first she thought it might be a phone scam but the number is a legitimate number (the phone only works office hours mon - fri) - a google search says it's an endowment line.

The letter says my FIL had a policy with Aviva "Policy Type - Group Protected Rights Investment Acc"

What is this? I did a google search and it appears to be something to do with people opting out of SERPs. My FIL would never have done this?

The letter says that Aviva have a received a request from a Financial Services Company called Parker Kelly (we have had had no contact with such a company) requesting information about the policy. The letter was signed bymy deceased FIL and Aviva were querying his signature as it didn't match their records and have therefore asked my FIL (who is deceased) to complete and return an enclosed "Declaration Confirming Signature" signed also by a solicitor.

Can someone please tell me:-

1) What a Group Protected Rights Investment Acc is?

2) Why would a Financial Services company be interested in his account?

3) Is this some sort of mass compensation scheme relating to SERPS?

Thanks

Linton

Whether your FIL was contracted out of SERPs could depend on the Ts&Cs of his employer's pension scheme. So he may well have been contracted out for part of his career.

A Group Protected Rights Pension is an employers pension for contracted out payments.

Parker Kelly are the name of a legitimate authorised financial advisory company based in Liverpool. They could be the administrators of the pension scheme.

So on the information you have given everything seems to be OK. It would seem that there is extra money. As a pension it wont be part of his estate. The money will be allocated to someone appropriate by the trustees of the pension scheme. The beneficiary will normally be the person your FIL specified when he joined the pension.

jamesd

Tell Aviva when he died. They can then check the claimed date of the signature to confirm that it was signed before his death.

Aviva has reason to be involved, since they would presumably be responsible for the payment of any death benefit. Those would ordinarily be paid out according to any expression of wishes form he completed, since such benefits are not part of the estate and not governed by the content of the will. Though trustees will tend to consider the contents when deciding what to do.

The government contracted out helpline may be able to tell you whether he was contracted out and where the contracted out payments were going. As Linton wrote, it may well be a work scheme. Or he could have done it during the Thatcher years when it was correctly for the time promoted as a good thing do do.

Because the helpline can identify all firms, it might turn up some more that you don't yet know about. If the Pension Tracing Service has not yet been used, that might also be worthwhile.

There are no likely mass compensation schemes relating to contracting out of SERPS because it was a good thing to do in the vast majority of cases. So little prospect of any firm but scammers making money out of it. There were a few FSA review suggestions but the firms involved will already have contacted anyone relevant. And they wouldn't be doing it by contacting Aviva.

Parker Kelly might somehow have noticed the death. If they really were administering the pension scheme they may have been acting based on the ending of the pension payments at death and chasing down any other monies that might be involved, based on what they might know about other work-related policies he took out, from employer records.

After discussing it with Aviva and asking them to do no transfers without oral confirmation from the executor that it is not a scam, discuss with Parker Kelly to find out how they are involved. Chances are that it's all legitimate and they are also going to be helpful, perhaps more so than Aviva.

dunstonh

I did a google search and it appears to be something to do with people opting out of SERPs. My FIL would never have done this?

Clearly he did. He may have done it through the workplace, an adviser, directly or whatever. In the late 80s, there were adverts running encouraging people to contract out.

1) What a Group Protected Rights Investment Acc is?

Protected rights were classified as non-protected rights recently. However, the term refers to the fund built up with being contracted out of SERPS/S2P. Group would suggest it was an group scheme, such as an employer scheme.

2) Why would a Financial Services company be interested in his account?

Maybe they were the original servicing agent for the group scheme and are trying to get in contact. Maybe they have found out he is dead and are trying to get it resolved. There is IFA software available that reports deaths of clients. So, maybe they found out that way. Maybe mail was returned. The administrator IFA for the plan is often the one that does all the administration. Not the insurer.

3) Is this some sort of mass compensation scheme relating to SERPS?

No. There is no mass compensation scheme in relation to SERPS. Indeed, the FOS stats show just 1% of complaints about SERPS get upheld. Past FSA reviews found mis-selling to be near non-existent.

GeneHunt_2

Hi and thank you so much for your replies.

1)My FIL never received any pension other than from DFWP.

His monthly payment was made up of:-

Basic State Pension
Pre 97 additional State Pension
Graduated Retirement Benefit
Age Addition

Giving the total amount each week.

Does that make sense?
If he had been contracted out would you have expected him to be receiving some pension from another 3rd party (ie not the DFWP)??

2)Parker Kelly have never tried to contact my FIL since his death as all his post is redirected to my wife.

My wife found no correspondence between Parker Kelly and her father in his papers and he never ever mentioned Parker Kelly.

Does that make sense?

3)Is it possible that Parker Kelly have forged his signature? Does that make sense?

Thanks again.

atush

they are probably legitimate handlers of the scheme he was in. Nothing you have said so far means they have forged/stolen. Where are you getting this?

Who did your father work for? could he have been (and forgotten) that at sometime in the past he had an occupational pension?

Seems to me you need to contact the pension tracing service above, and Parker Kelly to get to the bottom of this (without accusation of impropriety) until you have more facts.

It seems to me your father had pensions he didn't know about that will pay out to either his spouse or dependents/adult children if spouse is no longer living. Will depend on how he filled out his expressions of wish form, and the trustees. If the person on the form is deceased, the trustees MAY go along with any will so make sure you give them a copy.

xylophone

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/3560891

In 1987, in my first job, I contracted out of SERPS into a group scheme for the employees of the company I worked for at the time which was set up with Provident Mutual. The scheme was described as a Protected Rights Investment Account. Over the years, that has moved to Norwich Union and then Aviva and on the latest documentation it still described as a Group Protected Rights Investment Account. The investment fund is Aviva Managed (PM) Pension Non Chargeable Series 01.

might be worth a look.

Are you certain that FIL was never in the above situation?

GeneHunt_2

atush wrote: »

. Nothing you have said so far means they have forged/stolen. Where are you getting this?

The letter from Aviva states

"Dear Mr FIL
Policy holder : Mr FIL
Policy Number : xbnvjhdgfdhj
Policy Type : Group Protected Rights Investment Acc

We have recently received a request from Parker Kelly for information about this policy, this included a letter of authority signed by you [meaning my FIL who died in May]. As part of our security measures we check your signature againnst that held on the orginal policy proposal documentation before we carry out instructions. we do this to ensure that you are the policyholder and this check helps to prevent fraudulent changes to your policy.

After completing our checks, we found that your signature has changed. We understand that signatures do change over time but to protect our policyholders we must be certain that we are accepting instructions from the correct person.

We need you to complete and return the enclosed Declation Confirming Signature, Title and indemnity to allow us to deal with your new financial adviser.

We also need to see one of the following:

• Orginal or Certified Passport
• Orginal or Certified Driving Licnece

you may send certified copies...."

xylophone

Is it possible that your FIL belatedly remembered that he had taken such a policy and made enquiries?

GeneHunt_2

xylophone wrote: »

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/3560891



might be worth a look.

Are you certain that FIL was never in the above situation?

I am 99% certain my FIL never received a pension other than from DFWP. My wife did his tax returns every year. Also I have been through his bank statements myself for the last few years and there is no income other than DFWP and his dividend income (which is clearly marked).

Would we have expected to see some pension income in his bank statements?

GeneHunt_2

atush wrote: »

Who did your father work for? could he have been (and forgotten) that at sometime in the past he had an occupational pension?

My father lived at the same address for over 50 years and had the same phone number if that makes any difference.