Direct Debit Guarantee - not worth the paper it's printed on?

joncombe

I had a direct debit set up with a utility company, npower. I left npower and switched to another provider due to a large increase in charges and numerous billing errors. At the time I had an open complaint with regards to a billing error. Npower acknowledge that the bill was incorrect (it did not add up). At the time they issued a final bill, showing a credit balance, and sent me a cheque for the difference. I cancelled the Direct Debit with my bank and informed Npower of this both verbally and in writing (email).

My dispute was that the billing problems suggested I had been overcharged, as one bill was cancelled and a new bill issued (for the same period) but the opening balance of the new bill was the same as the closing balance of the "cancelled" bill, and the charges not fully refunded.

After much debate Npower agreed to re-bill me for the impacted period. This they did and sent me an email that a new bill was ready on the 5th August (the bill was dated 31st July). However I found this new bill was also incorrect as they had charged me on the wrong tariff and once again it contained basic arithmetic errors. As a result of these errors the bill showed a debit and stated this would be collected on 4th September. I called npower the following day and explained why I was not satisfied that the bill was correct and the reasons why. I was told the person dealing with my complaint did not work that day but they noted the points I made. I asked for assurance they would not attempt to take payment and was told this was the case and that a "block" had been placed on my account to prevent further payments being taken until the complaint was resolved (it still isn't, and the regulator is now involved).

So on chercking my bank account today I found that despite me cancelling the direct debit, they had set up a NEW direct debit on my account and debited the amount of the disputed bill from my account.

So despite cancelling the direct debit, informing the company of this, speaking them to explain the situation and getting assurance they'd not be taking the payment I find they are still able to set up a new direct debit and remove money from my bank account without my permission.

I complained to the bank (Barclays) who refunded the money under the Direct Debit Gurantee. However they told me that as I previously gave Npower permission to debit my account via Direct Debit they can set up a new direct debit. As such I'm concerned there will be a game of "cat and mouse", where npower set up a new direct debit and I keep cancelling it.

I thought the Direct Debit Gurantee was clear on this, that if the payment is cancelled at the bank, they should not be able to take further money. It appears that is not correct and a company can simply set up a new debit if you cancel one. Is this correct or have my bank (Barclays) mis-informed me? If so I am concerned about using Direct Debit again as the gurantee does not seem worthwhile. I may be able to get the money refunded under the gurantee but I am unable to stop it being taken in the first place if companies can just set up a new payment and debit money without my permission.

Can anyone advise the correct information here?

rb10

Barclays were wrong to tell you that.

They should have refunded the DD amount in full, straight away (and cancelled the DD instruction).

Phone them up, ask again. If they still say no, make a complaint.

Good luck sorting out the issue with NPower.

stclair

Even though you have cancelled the Direct debit their is nothing stopping the company setting up the direct debit again.

You may want to ask the bank if they can put a blanket block on the originator.

jonesMUFCforever

I agree with rb10 - the D/D indemnity is there to protect you in situations like this.
If you owe NPower the money they will chase you for it but they cannot just take it via Direct debit.

YorkshireBoy

stclair wrote: »

Even though you have cancelled the Direct debit their is nothing stopping the company setting up the direct debit again.

Don't the BACS system rules (say they) prohibit AUDDIS abuse such as this?

Persistent abuse could (in theory, but almost certainly not in practice) lose them their DD originator status, especially if there's an audit trail (as it seems there is with the OP's situation).

stclair

YorkshireBoy wrote: »

Don't the BACS system rules (say they) prohibit AUDDIS abuse such as this?

Persistent abuse could (in theory, but almost certainly not in practice) lose them their DD originator status, especially if there's an audit trail (as it seems there is with the OP's situation).

I'm not sure of the policy procedure in such circumstances. However BT used to be a classic of this in the OPs circumstances. They would reset DDs using a new reference.

BMN

npower is either creating a new direct debit or more likely reinstating the cancelled direct debit (they should have your authority to do both of these though).
There is nothing more the bank can do to stop npower from doing this.
You can claim back from the bank the full amount (and the full amount only) from an incorrect direct debit, as you have already done.
You might find that your contract/t&c with npower allows them to do this.

joncombe

BMN wrote: »

npower is either creating a new direct debit or more likely reinstating the cancelled direct debit (they should have your authority to do both of these though).
There is nothing more the bank can do to stop npower from doing this.
You can claim back from the bank the full amount (and the full amount only) from an incorrect direct debit, as you have already done.
You might find that your contract/t&c with npower allows them to do this.

The Direct Debit showed on my account as "First DDR Payment" and has a new reference so I think they set up a new debit.

In this case I am no longer a customer of Npower. I am no longer supplied by them, my account shows as "Closed" on their online system (and has done for months). So as far as I'm concerned the contract is ended and they have no right to take further money. I disputed the final bill because it didn't add up (they have agreed). But the re-issued bill is on the wrong tariff, and has errors (confirmed by Npower Executive complaints team) hence it's shown as in debit. IF they can prove that they are somehow owed money I'll pay it but I certainly do NOT want them just helping themselves when they have confirmed the bill issued is wrong.

I want to be able to stop them helping themselves to my money without my agreement. I really can't believe there is *nothing* I can do to stop them?. If so I will be very wary of Direct Debit again.

rb10

joncombe wrote: »

I want to be able to stop them helping themselves to my money without my agreement. I really can't believe there is *nothing* I can do to stop them?. If so I will be very wary of Direct Debit again.

If they do take another direct debit payment, you just claim it back from your bank again.

It's a very easy process - I did it when NPower took an extra DD payment from my Nationwide account earlier this year.

I just phoned up Nationwide, and within a couple of minutes it was all sorted. Easy. You won't lose a penny.

grumbler

joncombe wrote: »

...(Barclays) ... told me that as I previously gave Npower permission to debit my account via Direct Debit they can set up a new direct debit. ...

Tell Barclays that they are incompetent idiots.

http://www.directdebit.co.uk/DirectD...gpayments.aspx

Money shouldn't be collected from your account after you have cancelled and under the Scheme rules, an organisation would have to obtain your authority to reinstate a cancelled Instruction.

innovate

I'd go straight back to the npower Exec Complaints Person, in writing, to demand they stop any further attempts to take your money via Direct Debit. They know they aren't entitled to it, and they can stop their lower charges from trying it again.

Also ask for additional compensation for the additional work and aggregavation they have been causing you.