Brother borrowed 20k without consent

ruggedtoast

Dont have much to add to this other than that I hope they throw the book at him.

ruggedtoast

He obviously just decided he was going to help himself to his (and the OP's) inheritance a bit early.

NANANINANOONOO

jonesMUFCforever wrote: »

Get a charge put on his house NOW!
You can do this by downloading the form from the Land Registry website and paying their fee.
Don't worry too much at the moment about whether you can enforce it - just put it on which would stall any sale or change of ownership.
At the end of the day any enforcement would be down to a judge in court.

Apparantly you cannot get a charge put on a property yourself it has to be done by a solicitor and only after a court hearing, also due to the amount of money involved in dads case this can only take place in crown court.

We have now got the Land Registry details on my bros property which lists my bro and his late wife as owners and it names the lender but we dont really understand all of it. I have excluded the older entries under this Charges Register section as they relate to previous owner/s before my brother purchased the property in the mid 80's. I have blanked out the company and other reference details of entries 3 & 4 but these are the latest and only entries within my brothers ownership. Please note the 'proprietor' named in part 4 is the original lender.

Can anyone explain what the following entries mean please?
Does it mean that someone already has a claim on the property if it is sold?

C: Charges Register
This register contains any charges and other matters
that affect the land.

3 - (04.03.2009) REGISTERED CHARGE dated 3 March 2009.

4 - (04.03.2009) Proprietor:

---

(Co. Regn. No. ----) of Registrations, Secured Assets, ---(address)

---

,

---

.

kanute50

If your brother purchased his present home in the mid 80's then it looks as though he re-mortgaged with his lender in 2009.

There is no means of knowing how much equity there might be in his property, if any. It may be mortgaged to the hilt.

---lee---

NANANINANOONOO wrote: »

Can anyone explain what the following entries mean please?
Does it mean that someone already has a claim on the property if it is sold?

C: Charges Register
This register contains any charges and other matters
that affect the land.

3 - (04.03.2009) REGISTERED CHARGE dated 3 March 2009.

4 - (04.03.2009) Proprietor:

---

(Co. Regn. No. ----) of Registrations, Secured Assets, ---(address)

---

,

---

.

Charges are burdens on the property.

Any loans or mortgages secured against the properly will be listed here. The title cannot be changed without agreement from those listed.

I could well be wrong, so please speak to a solicitor about this but I think you would struggle to get a charge registered against a property when it’s already mortgaged – as the original lender already has an interest in the property, so why would they agree to anyone else getting a cut of the cake so to speak if the house ends up being repossessed. Certaintly, I can't see how this would be possible without getting a soliciter involved.

ruggedtoast

Considering his kids are paying off the interest on some of his loans for him, he's stolen £50k of his elderly father's money, and is now being investigated by the police, it sounds like he has probably blown the lot.

NANANINANOONOO

---lee--- wrote: »

Charges are burdens on the property.

Any loans or mortgages secured against the properly will be listed here. The title cannot be changed without agreement from those listed.

I could well be wrong, so please speak to a solicitor about this but I think you would struggle to get a charge registered against a property when it’s already mortgaged – as the original lender already has an interest in the property, so why would they agree to anyone else getting a cut of the cake so to speak if the house ends up being repossessed. Certaintly, I can't see how this would be possible without getting a soliciter involved.

Does it make any difference if the money owed is from an agreed loan from creditors or through a crime like theft or fraud?
As I understand it, more than one person can put a charge on a property but its first come first served so the further down the list you are the less likely you are of getting anything. Due to the police investigation process in dads case it could be some time before a court hearing in which case there is not much chance of him getting placed far up any list.
Does anyone have any more info on the process required to register a charge?

ruggedtoast

NANANINANOONOO wrote: »

Does it make any difference if the money owed is from an agreed loan from creditors or through a crime like theft or fraud?
As I understand it, more than one person can put a charge on a property but its first come first served so the further down the list you are the less likely you are of getting anything. Due to the police investigation process in dads case it could be some time before a court hearing in which case there is not much chance of him getting placed far up any list.
Does anyone have any more info on the process required to register a charge?

There is something on the LR here.

http://www.landregistry.gov.uk/professional/guides/practice-guide-29#guide-mark-11

Clear as mud to be honest.

Bit more information here from the other side:

http://www.adviceguide.org.uk/england/debt_e/debt_action_your_creditor_can_take_e/charging_orders.htm#about_charging_orders

I had a quick look on google and it's rather ambiguous, but it seems like you will need to go to court and get them to agree that you are a creditor:

http://uk.ask.com/question/how-do-you-place-a-charge-on-property

This would seem logical otherwise people could put charges on anyone's property willy nilly.

I know this isnt the best time but if you want to progress any of this yourself rather than just wait for the police, you are really going to have to appoint, and pay for, a solicitor for your dad.

At very least putting a charge on bro's house might make him finally take notice. His actions are absolutely indefensible, and frankly utterly repulsive.

Based on what you have said it seems like he couldn't give a toss about any of this, he seems to just think his dad is very elderly and if he strings out the problem long enough it will eventually just go away.

Vile.

BobQ

ruggedtoast wrote: »

There is something on the LR here.

http://www.landregistry.gov.uk/professional/guides/practice-guide-29#guide-mark-11

Clear as mud to be honest.

Bit more information here from the other side:

http://www.adviceguide.org.uk/england/debt_e/debt_action_your_creditor_can_take_e/charging_orders.htm#about_charging_orders

I had a quick look on google and it's rather ambiguous, but it seems like you will need to go to court and get them to agree that you are a creditor:

http://uk.ask.com/question/how-do-you-place-a-charge-on-property

This would seem logical otherwise people could put charges on anyone's property willy nilly.

I know this isnt the best time but if you want to progress any of this yourself rather than just wait for the police, you are really going to have to appoint, and pay for, a solicitor for your dad.

At very least putting a charge on bro's house might make him finally take notice. His actions are absolutely indefensible, and frankly utterly repulsive.

Based on what you have said it seems like he couldn't give a toss about any of this, he seems to just think his dad is very elderly and if he strings out the problem long enough it will eventually just go away.

Vile.

Does the OP need a charge? Surely all he wants is register an interest restricting sale? I have no professional knowledge of this but the LT does have something about unilaterally applying for a restriction.


OP needs legal advice or could try posting on housing thread where a LR rep may answer?

jacques_chirac

BobQ wrote: »

Does the OP need a charge? Surely all he wants is register an interest restricting sale? I have no professional knowledge of this but the LT does have something about unilaterally applying for a restriction.


OP needs legal advice or could try posting on housing thread where a LR rep may answer?

A unilateral notice of interest could be applied for. If this is done the registered owner of the property would receive a copy of the notice and would have the right to ask the applicant to prove their interest.

It is very simple to register a unilateral notice. It is far more difficult to prove that an interest exists.