Water Direct Scheme United Utilities

misschatterbox

I am currently in a DMP and all my spare money goes to them each month. I am just about keeping my head above water with other bills such as council tax and electric but was still struggling so my water bill is in arrears of £500.

I have been told they have written to the DWP to take it straight from my benefit plus my normal monthly payments I should be making for this year.

I am so scared as I literally have just enough to eat now. I don't go out, don't smoke, volunteer and walk there so as not to use buses etc. I can't cutback anywhere so am really worried.

Does anyone know how much they DWP can take off me? If you can appeal against the amount if too much?

Naf

£500 is a lot; I mean that's almost 2 years of my bill for a family of 5!
How did it get so far behind without being sorted earlier or a part of your DMP?

misschatterbox

Naf wrote: »

£500 is a lot; I mean that's almost 2 years of my bill for a family of 5!
How did it get so far behind without being sorted earlier or a part of your DMP?

I had to move into a flat suddenly due to circumstances and I couldn't really afford it. My DMP said water debts couldn't be included in the plan

If I had some lavish lifestyle and had just not paid my bills fine but I literally do nothing and go nowhere. I didn't get into debt through choice but because of a sudden change in circumstances. I've done everything possible to try and sort my debts out and get back on track but everywhere I turn something knocks me back

wobbly588

The DWP will deduct £3.60 per week for arrears and the a weekly amount for current charges. That weekly amount will be the annual charge divided by 52.

It's probably the cheapest way to pay when you have such large arrears and one bill you won't get chased for.

Naf

misschatterbox wrote: »

I had to move into a flat suddenly due to circumstances and I couldn't really afford it. My DMP said water debts couldn't be included in the plan

If I had some lavish lifestyle and had just not paid my bills fine but I literally do nothing and go nowhere. I didn't get into debt through choice but because of a sudden change in circumstances. I've done everything possible to try and sort my debts out and get back on track but everywhere I turn something knocks me back

So are you on a meter? If its just you, I'd suggest a meter would save you money!

misschatterbox

Naf wrote: »

So are you on a meter? If its just you, I'd suggest a meter would save you money!

I applied for it and they sent a guy round who said my place wasn't suitable for one

wobbly588

misschatterbox wrote: »

I applied for it and they sent a guy round who said my place wasn't suitable for one

Unfortunately not all properties can be metered and it is not uncommon with a flat due to the way the internal plumbing is not suitable.

You may be eligible for an assessed charge if the meter is not appropriate.

samsmoot

Have a read of this - it won't quote so I've copied and pasted it:


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'I made a few posts in reply to the exact same question on another forum, but thought it worthwhile to repeat myself:


As someone who is currently involved (on a complaining basis) with this issue, I can tell you what the legislation and guidelines have to say about 'Third Party Deductions'.
Regulations 34 and 35 of The Social Security (Claims and Payments) Regulations 1987 say that deductions can be made "...only if the authority is satisfied that the beneficiary or his partner has failed to budget for those [water] charges, and that it would be in the interests of the family to make the determination."

An application by a water company should be "...along the lines of" ..."Annex A to the ‘Joint statement of intent on the DWP Third Party Deductions scheme in respect of fuel and water charges’ – ‘Application for Water Direct’."

The ‘Application for Water Direct’ asks: "Has the customer failed two payment plans on this debt".

OFWAT says that Third Party Deductions should be a last resort.

So unless you have "failed to budget" - which would be shown by the water company ticking the "yes" box on the application, deductions should not be made. And it seems arguable that deductions should not be made if you have not got a family.

All water companies have a charitable trust set up to help people who are unable to pay their water bill, so you should write to the water company, telling them you wish to apply to the charitable trust for this help and to put all recovery action on hold until a decision has been made. You do not have to be on benefit.

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The Primary legislation is unclear about whether or not consent is needed for Third Party Deductions, but the DWP and the utility companies say consent is not needed, and that applications can be unilaterally made by a utility company. With regard to deductions for water charges the onus is on the 'adjudicating authority' (i.e. a DWP decision maker) to be satisfied of a failure to budget for those charges, hence the question on the application form asking if the customer has failed two payment plans.

If the answer is 'yes', then it is implicit that the customer has actually failed to budget, and it therefore seems deductions can then be made on the basis that the customer admits to owing money for water charges, has arranged to pay by instalments (showing a willingness to pay), but is finding it difficult to keep making payments. Deductions would therefore be in the customer's interest. The avoidance of court action is also stated as being in a customer's interest, as it saves them from incurring further debt.

If, on the other hand, no (or only one) payment plan has been failed it seems the deductions cannot be lawful, and the only recourse would be to challenge the decision. The DWP has said that there is no right of appeal to get the deductions stopped, and once they are started you can bet that any amount of protest won't change their mind: you'll have to take it to the County Court. You would make a Part 8 claim against the Secretary of State for Work and Pensions, asking the court to order that the deductions be stopped. I can tell you that the same action is being taken right now by a friend of mine, and that despite the DWP's protests the judge has ordered a hearing on November 11 2008. He seemed well disposed towards the claimant's position, but in her case she had had no previous contact whatsoever from her water supplier - they just made an application and the DWP started making the deductions.

The claim should succeed, but having encountered the DWP' solicitors before I know they will try every trick in the book to win, and it's an ouside possibility that the claim will fail. In any event there will be a claim made against the water company due to their wrongdoing, and satisfaction may have to be gotten that way.

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Just thought I'd keep everyone advised on the outcome of the claim mentioned in the above post.
The DWP has decided to change its decision in advance of the hearing , and will no longer be making the deductions, which is the result hoped for.'

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I'm sure that the bit about charitable help will be interesting to you - if anyone should get assistance it's you!

As for the DWP, I would write a firm letter stating that they must not make the deductions as it is being sorted - you are applying to the water company's charitable trust for help. If you actually haven't failed to stick to a payment plan the deductions will be unlawful, so tell that to the DWP if so.

You cannot appeal the amount of the deductions (because the amount is set), but that doesn't mean to say you can't appeal the deductions being made.

samsmoot

Corrections and Additions to the above repost:

'Family', for these purposes also means an individual(!?!)

I believe deductions can be challenged via appeal - but court was better at the time.

The claim went to a hearing because the DWP failed to present a signed agreement before the hearing. And because when they wanted to sort it 10 minutes before the hearing I told them to get lost. Not an advisable thing to do as it's something which is usually frowned upon by the court, but once the Claimant (I was Mackenzie Friend) told the judge she hadn't agreed the proposed settlement because it wasn't signed and because she 'didn't trust them' the judge thought that was good enough - and then got his teeth into them.

wobbly588

"All water companies have a charitable trust set up to help people who are unable to pay their water bill, so you should write to the water company, telling them you wish to apply to the charitable trust for this help and to put all recovery action on hold until a decision has been made. You do not have to be on benefit."


This is not correct as no Water Company is forced to set up a charitable trust. Some have them and others haven't. Many companies offer restart schemes or different tariffs to assist. Don't rely on schemes though, register and pay your bills and then you don't end up in arrears!

C_Mababejive

I thought you didnt have to pay water bills....