Fire Doors in Block of Flats

teajug

Speaking to my friend today and he told that his block has no fire doors in the block. The doors leading to common stairwell are glass. I am not sure about fire door in flats and could not advise. Does anyone know about fire door for block of council flats 10 floors in the block.:T:T

Hump

Get your mate to ask the landlord for the fire risk assessment - after the Lakanal House fire in 2009 most landlords got a bit more serious about common areas. If they don't have one, then speak to your local Fire Service.

teajug

Thanks, I have been looking on the net for him but cannot find anything about LA multi occupancy blocks of flat for LA regarding fire regulation but found but found some about private block of flats.

His local fire station has closed recently that is why he is worried and there is a lot of disabled people including children in his block of flats the fire door at the bottom of the common stairwell is broken as well.
:T

AlexMac

Whether this is a public or privately rented property or your friend is the leaseholder/owner, I assume this is a Council Freehold?

If so the LA still has responsibility for communal areas and overall fire safety. So how about asking the Council, and if they ignore the request, asking your friend's ward Councillor to enquire? Irrespective of ownership, your friend's a local resident and their Councillor represents their interests. Use http://www.writetothem.com/ if finding them is tricky.

Like you, I don't know the regs (if any), but when, a year ago, I bought a BTL leasehold flat in a similar sounding 12-flat LA block comprising 3 storeys, I was surprised to note that the LA freeholder has to produce a risk assessment including fire safety as part of the freeholder enquiries. Pretty superficial, but given the awful case of deaths in a tower block fire in London a few years back, I'd imagine that most Councils are now doing these.

But what matters are smoke detectors, heat detectors and means of escape... so as well as pressing the LA to repair communal doors, might your friend research these and simply invest some time and £10-30 in some potentially lifesaving DIY kit? They can even take the stick-on battery detectors with them when/if they move?

As a shared freeholder- in effect, a Director of the freehold company in my last flat, we were never aware of ant specific requirement to fireproof the block, so we just applied common sense. And given that the local Fire Service probably offer free advice, why not call them too?

Good luck

propertyman

it is common misunderstanding that older buildings must be brought up to current standards,. if it met the building regs, inc fire, at the time it was built, then it will comply. The risk assessment however looks at risks to see if a modification or upgrade is required.

Because of costs and the common wording of secure tenancies that in the event of fire they will not rehouse you, FRA's are low on the list of priorities of a LA.

The local Fire Service too will inspect and contact them but the inter agency excuse of "cuts" is often played out.

teajug

Thanks for helpful replies. Councillors do not want to know as MP as they will only refer you back to the council and regulations. Actually I expect they do not know anyway. He has got fire alarm installed in his home, but it’s the common areas that he feels anxious about. His door entrance is half glass as well. Council has only sent out letter asking people not to block fire exit but the exits all have glass exit door and partitions as well. Their caretaking staff do not go above the ground t ground floor and do not know the conditions of the corridors, but if anything should happen they will obviously blame the tenants!!

However I have found this on line about fire regulations but it seems that councils blocks are exempt, make you wound why as they are multi occupied and are at most risk as council do not look after properties.
If it were private block of flats then that would be a different kettle of fish. They would be after them very quick….but not so sure about how it is nowadays with Lib/Con.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/kurtbarling/2009/09/whos_judging_the_judge.html

http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2004/34/contents

I cannot make head of tail of it as I cannot find anything relating to LA’s, but maybe I am not looking at the right sections.

Jat1

Council Block DO come under the Fire Safety Order 2005. The local authority will be responsible for maintaining the common areas, including the lobby doors.

You can get different type of fire doors. The one you have described could have fire resistant glazing. These lobby doors are extremely important as they will hold back any fire and prevent the smoke from spreading to the other parts of the building.

Depending on which county you are in, you will need to raise a complaint to your local Fire Brigade HQ. this can be anonymous. An inspector will have to inspect the block of flats (common areas), including the door you mention. They will also look at the fire alarm and means of escape. They will then notify you of the outcome. Send your local fire brigade HQ an email on their website expressing your concerns- an inspection will follow...

spacey2012

The fire door is normally fitted to the flat itself.

propertyman

Well no they are not exempt, they are subject to the order, even if the management is undertaken by an ALMO.

The problem is that the enforcing authority is often the same council and local Fire Servcies are hand in glove with them.

For all their protestations aboot "health and safety" the record if the average council is pretty ******* poor.

An owner can take a private prosecution in the local magistrates Court if they wish.

Shows that when everyone scrams about certain private landlords it pales into insignificance when looking at local authorities and ALMOS as leasehold owners/managers.

teajug

Yes, you are correct, councils seems to wants people to do as they say, but not as they do.

I have been doing some research for him and found this link, which say it all about councils how to do not have to comply with anything...

http://www.insidehousing.co.uk/repairs/cps-decision-could-undermine-fire-safety-legislation/6522211.article

Missme

Ask for a copy of the fire risk assessment (FRA) for the block. If the capital's largest social landlord can get them done, I don't see why other LAs can't.

If there is a FRA, there should be a programme for completion of any required works. Because social landlords are responsible for such large numbers of properties, they have leeway but not dispensation in terms of carrying out works.

If your friend is a leaseholder, OP, and the front entrance door to his flat is demised to him, then the responsibility to ensure it meets regs is his (as with internal doors). Some councils choose not to demand that a lessee changes the door or take on the work and recharge even when FRA works are being carried out. This is what is commonly referred to as b*llsh*t politics. If the block burns down then Mr/Ms Selfish Leaseholder must shoulder some of the blame if not all of it.

Do approach the councillor - the council has to justify its (in)actions and local politicians like to take the side of the voter on things that can embarass.

I wonder what would happen if some little miscreant were to start a small, smokey blaze in the stairwell on a weekend... <wanders off whistling>