Parking Eye PCN Notice, Tower Road Newquay

Umkomaas

Almost whatever form of appeal you send to a PPC will result in rejection. The trick is to winkle out a POPLA code, to which you are ENTITLED if the PPC reject your appeal.

So, yes go with what you've drafted, you've given them your initial appeal points for them to consider (and I'm sure they'll realise that you've got a whole lot more waiting for them at POPLA). But sometimes they obfuscate by writing back asking that you give further information in support of your letter, so I'd be inclined to head up your appeal (in BLOCK CAPS and largish font) APPEAL AGAINST PARKING CHARGE NOTICE xxxxxx.

Also at the end of your letter words to the effect 'take note, this is my formal appeal, no further information will be provided'

simon196

Now I have an image of the actual parking sign on the Tower Road car park

Here it is (if I've mastered the upload correctly !)

As can be seen, it shows 'All Day' parking as £7.20 for 8.00am - 10.00pm.
It also mentions that there is 'NO PARKING OUTSIDE OF THESE TIMES'.

It seems pretty clear now that I have the photo....I'm now concerned that I will be unsuccessful in any appeal I might make as although I paid for a full day ticket the sign clearly says NO PARKING OUTSIDE OF THESE TIMES (8am-10pm). I left at 10.30pm so I guess I'm liable ??

£100 pounds does seem a bit steep though for an overstay of 30 mins....

Guys_Dad

No, all than means that you won't win on signage and are "guilty as charged"

You appeal on no valid contract and not a genuine pre-estimate of costs, but saved for the POPLA stage.

You initially write to the PPC saying that you are the keeper. The driver parked, paid £7.50 and does not dispute the time they left.

However, your reading of the wording is that there was no parking after 10.00 which you took to mean "no entry to park", particularly as the sign says "ALL DAY" in larger letters with 8.00 a.m. - 10.00 p.m. in much smaller letters which are easily missed.

Given that you did pay, you would be grateful if they would on this occasion cancel the charge.

If not, then please supply a POPLA code so that you can appeal.

simon196

Guys_Dad wrote: »

No, all than means that you won't win on signage and are "guilty as charged"

You appeal on no valid contract and not a genuine pre-estimate of costs, but saved for the POPLA stage.

You initially write to the PPC saying that you are the keeper. The driver parked, paid £7.50 and does not dispute the time they left.

However, your reading of the wording is that there was no parking after 10.00 which you took to mean "no entry to park", particularly as the sign says "ALL DAY" in larger letters with 8.00 a.m. - 10.00 p.m. in much smaller letters which are easily missed.

Given that you did pay, you would be grateful if they would on this occasion cancel the charge.

If not, then please supply a POPLA code so that you can appeal.

Thanks Guys_Dad
Unsure what is actually meant by 'no valid contract'...? Is this contract between the driver and the ppc ?

And also the 'genuine pre estimate of costs' bit.....is this related to the costs which the ppc management company could have incurred due to our car being parked after 10pm ??

Thanks for your help and advice....

Stroma

simon196 wrote: »

Thanks Guys_Dad
Unsure what is actually meant by 'no valid contract'...? Is this contract between the driver and the ppc ?

And also the 'genuine pre estimate of costs' bit.....is this related to the costs which the ppc management company could have incurred due to our car being parked after 10pm ??

Thanks for your help and advice....

It means no valid contract between the parking company and the retailer/service provider - they never give a contract, if its raised with popla and one is not given to them, it's end of story

Genuine pre estimate of costs - means that the parking company has not lost the sum claimed - they all lose if this is given to popla as the parking company has no answer to it, they try operating costs as a loss, such as staff, signs, cameras, uniforms and so on, those aren't losses they are costs of doing business.

EHBA

Stroma wrote: »

It means no valid contract between the parking company and the retailer/service provider - they never give a contract, if its raised with popla and one is not given to them, it's end of story

Genuine pre estimate of costs - means that the parking company has not lost the sum claimed - they all lose if this is given to popla as the parking company has no answer to it, they try operating costs as a loss, such as staff, signs, cameras, uniforms and so on, those aren't losses they are costs of doing business.

What costs could they possibly genuinely pre-estimate for when the car park is closed for business as the primary function of their contract with the Golf Club is revenue protection during the hours the car park is open.

Can the OP say if he actually paid £7.50 or £7.20 as per the signage. Is it on the ticket ?

Coupon-mad

'Not a genuine pre-estimate of LOSS' is what we should be saying.

To the OP, simon196, here are POPLA wording examples and what to include, so do spend some time reading ahead about POPLA appeals and you will understand what we mean:

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/comment/62180281#Comment_62180281

Could you check please:

- what does the original postal PCN say was the 'contravention'? What words EXACTLY where it says what they allege the driver did?

- And does it refer to 'breached terms & conditions'?

- Is the word 'trespass' on the postal PCN 'ticket' at all (I doubt it but want to check).

simon196

EHBA wrote: »

What costs could they possibly genuinely pre-estimate for when the car park is closed for business as the primary function of their contract with the Golf Club is revenue protection during the hours the car park is open.

Can the OP say if he actually paid £7.50 or £7.20 as per the signage. Is it on the ticket ?

Hi EHBA,
We actually paid £7.50 as we did not have enough change to pay the exact charge which was £7.20. The payment machine was the type which does not give change. £7.50 is printed on the ticket which I have.

simon196

Coupon-mad wrote: »

'Not a genuine pre-estimate of LOSS' is what we should be saying.

To the OP, simon196, here are POPLA wording examples and what to include, so do spend some time reading ahead about POPLA appeals and you will understand what we mean:

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/comment/62180281#Comment_62180281

Could you check please:

- what does the original postal PCN say was the 'contravention'? What words EXACTLY where it says what they allege the driver did?

- And does it refer to 'breached terms & conditions'?

- Is the word 'trespass' on the postal PCN 'ticket' at all (I doubt it but want to check).

The POPLA appeals that you provide all seem very comprehensive. I can understand basically the points that are being made.

I have uploaded an image of the PCN here;

Coupon-mad

It's a standard one, alleging breach of t&cs - and in fact even the sign doesn't say that parking/staying after 10pm is trespass, it just talks about 'failure to comply'.

Have a read of the most recent posts in the POPLA decisions thread at the top of the forum and you can see how adjudicators keep deciding against PE because for them to try to make a charge for 'failure to comply' this can only be enforceable if it is an amount to compensate them for actual loss. Have a read of the successes on the POPLA thread (not the old ones, not the first page).