Is it still correct to ignore every letter?

Coupon-mad

Enclose a copy of this newspaper article in your complaint letter to Nick Briant:

http://www.newquayvoice.co.uk/news/5/article/3428/

''Visiting vehicles have a 20-minute grace period when they enter and leave the car park before having to buy a ticket''

''Jon Briant, manager at the Fistral Surf Centre, said: “The car park is now done by cameras so you have to make your mind up what you want to do. There is a 20- minute grace period to decide whether you are going to stay.''

Coupon-mad

Also your daughter mustn't take her eye off the ball, re getting the skeleton defence in:

zzzLazyDaisy wrote: »

Also check out other threads for what to do with the court papers (she MUST sign on to MCOL and file an Acknowledgment of Service and tick to say she wants time to file a defence. She then has 28 days from service of proceedings to file the defence. If she does not deal with the court procedure within the timescales set by the court, PE will enter judgment in default and she will get a CCJ against her.

I take it the court papers were sent in her name as registered keeper? She must defend it within 28 days then, has a skeleton defence been submitted yet? Links here:

http://forums.pepipoo.com/index.php?showtopic=82744&st=0&gopid=862298

Reading everything that flows from those links should enable a simple bullet-point defence to be submitted, one point of which will be that, it is in the public domain that Britannic have allowed a 20 minute grace period and so their agent cannot enforce tickets after just six minutes.



P.S. Are you SURE the fake PCN is only stating SIX minutes? I am concerned about this because it's unlike PE to pursue that, and because you obviously weren't looking at the actual ticket when you first posted, as you didn't know which beach it was at. Check the facts, she can't defend unless she gets the details right.

zzzLazyDaisy

4consumerrights wrote: »

I also wonder if it may be worth reporting to BPA for breach of Cop re grace periods.

Coupon-mad wrote: »

Enclose a copy of this newspaper article in your complaint letter to Nick Briant:

http://www.newquayvoice.co.uk/news/5/article/3428/

''Visiting vehicles have a 20-minute grace period when they enter and leave the car park before having to buy a ticket''

And also include the link and quotes with your complaint to BPA about their member's breach of para 13 of the BPA CoP on grace periods (see extract below.

David Metcalf
Operations Manager British Parking Association
Email: david.m@britishparking.co.uk

Also copy your e-mail to elizabeth.symons@dvla.gsi.gov.uk and ask her to investigate PE's unlawful conduct in obtaining keeper data from DVLA when they were clearly in breach of the BPA Code of Practice, compliance with which is a pre-condition for obtaining such data.

13 Grace periods
13.1 Your approach to parking management must allow a
driver who enters your car park but decides not to park,
to leave the car park within a reasonable period without
having their vehicle issued with a parking charge notice.
13.2 You should allow the driver a reasonable ‘grace period’
in which to decide if they are going to stay or go. If the
driver is on your land without permission you should still
allow them a grace period to read your signs and leave
before you take enforcement action.
13.3 You should be prepared to tell us the specific grace period
at a site if our compliance team or our agents ask what it is.
13.4 You should allow the driver a reasonable period to leave
the private car park after the parking contract has ended,
before you take enforcement action.

zzzLazyDaisy

Coupon-mad wrote: »

P.S. Are you SURE the fake PCN is only stating SIX minutes? I am concerned about this because it's unlike PE to pursue that, and because you obviously weren't looking at the actual ticket when you first posted, as you didn't know which beach it was at. Check the facts, she can't defend unless she gets the details right.

I agree with this - you obviously did not have all the facts when you started posting on here for help, and you really need to see the paperwork if you are going to be of any use to your daughter.

Court proceedings are not something that you approach with only half the relevant information at your disposal!

N9eav

zzzLazyDaisy wrote: »

I agree with this - you obviously did not have all the facts when you started posting on here for help, and you really need to see the paperwork if you are going to be of any use to your daughter.

Court proceedings are not something that you approach with only half the relevant information at your disposal!

Thank you so far.

I am trying to assist my daughter who is 19 and would not be able to do any of this herself. My advice to her in the first place was ignore the demands (which I now know to be bad advice). I am now trying to save her £165. If it came to court she would not be able to defend herself, so anything I can do to assist at this time might save some money. (My money as she is now unemployed and has none). Certainly a CCJ would be of no help.

Things have now moved on to the court stage without the letter before court action, which was an opportunity to get the facts again and fight back on her behalf so that she did not need to get involved. The biggest problem I have is I don't know all the facts. She says she was there for 5-6 minutes. But I don't know as I don't remember what was on the first notice that came through. (Fake PCN bin it) If you do have 20 mins to get a ticket here, that seems fair. I know many of us often pop to Fistral car park which is the turnaround point for that road, see some sun and surfers and leave. So to ticket everyone that just enters and leaves after a few minutes would be ridiculous. She was a regular there that summer and made many trips, so this one could have been longer than 20 mins, I do not know. (They do specify 20 mins to get a ticket)

I need to find out from PE what times they recorded. If it was 21 or more minutes for example, then I don't see much of a case other than it being punitive and their demands did not follow the Practice direction.

Can I get that information before any CCJ is issued? Assuming a longer stay than 20 mins is true, what ground have I to fight this?

Does a defence need to be made at this stage or can you return the court papers with an acknowledgement only? Then have the 28 days to register a defence?

My argument would be that without the letter before Court, there was no opportunity to resolve this matter at the latter stages???

I will get a letter off to Britannic industries in any event....

Stroma

No CCJ is just issued, it's not an automatic thing even if she losses the claim. She just pays the judgement before it's registered, that normally means she has 28 days to pay.

IMO if she can't remember how long she stayed there then don't use it at this stage, mention the grace period but not the exact timing of it. Parking Eye must give everything that they are relying in court to your daughter. She will have a chance to rebut what they say.

Just stay calm with this, it's very informal if it gets to court, and you can go with her and even speak for her at the hearing if needs be. My suggestion would be to put everything in writing that you want to say, so you don't forget, and to study the BPA Code of Practice, and the a Protection of Freedoms Act 2012, put any breaches in the defence.

Coupon-mad

Does a defence need to be made at this stage or can you return the
court papers with an acknowledgement only? Then have the 28 days to register a defence?

She must submit a defence in bullet point format within 28 days of service of those court papers (you don't get an extra 28 days after acknowledgement, it just extends the total time allowed to 28 days from service).

She won't get a CCJ at all. If she gets this to a hearing and loses you'd then pay, usually £200. No CCJ, job done. So why pay £165 now when you have options?

Most cases PE have served papers on have NOT ended up in Court.

As well as acknowledging the claim and planning some of the defence one-liners in readiness, why don't you also consider writing immediately and if you wish, make an offer to PE (in her name, has to come 'from her'). State that she believes there was no 20 minute grace period allowed and that there were other breaches of the BPA CoP and the Practice Direction, so she will be defending the claim.

If it feels right for you, invite them to accept, say, £30 in full and final settlement for their costs, to drop the case seeing as they are getting such bad publicity right now over these Newquay beach car parks and if they pursue the case she intends to publicise it in the press and to complain in detail to the Client, who has been copied into this letter in the interests of open communication with all parties. After all, the client (Mr Briant of Britannic) is quoted as saying there is a 20 minute grace period to make your mind up whether to stay.

Say that she strongly believes this was not allowed in her case since the driver didn't take up a parking space at all and simply collected a passenger within minutes. She doesn't recall seeing any evidence to the contrary in any of their letters so she requires them to show her a copy of their compliant Notice to Keeper showing the evidence they are relying upon. She can find no such letter so is unaware of the alleged contravention nor does she have any idea as to what photo evidence was obtained. She would also wish to state (and would have done if she had ever received a Letter before Claim) that the driver saw no clear entrance sign at this site, which is a breach of the BPA Code of Practice and also means there was no contract formed.

If they cannot produce a copy of their evidence (copy of any Notice to Keeper and picture of the entrance sign), bearing in mind NO Letter before Claim was ever served, you suggest they settle the matter and accept the offer because, among other grounds of defence you will alert the judge the case of Parking Eye v Smith. In that case, the judge said he would have only ordered the defendant to pay the amount of the missed parking charge payable at the machine, if Mr Smith had made an offer (which Mr Smith had not). As you have made a very reasonable offer, above the P&D ticket amount and court fee, and since they have failed to follow the Practice Direction, you suggest the best outcome is to settle the matter out of court now. As time is of the essence you require a response within seven days and enclose a £30 cheque which is only to be banked if accepted as full and final settlement and the case is closed.

At the bottom put:

cc Nick Briant, Britannic Industries

and

cc Cllr Sandy Carter, Mayor of Newquay

http://www.newquaycouncil.co.uk/the-council/town-mayor-and-deputy

...and do send a copy to both with a covering note briefly raising their attention to this matter and that something needs to be done about this pariah in Newquay, suing tourists and residents and preventing ordinary people from ever returning.

DO NOT put 'without prejudice' on the letter, leave it as an open offer that you can show in your defence.

newholme30

Do what Coupon says, but sadly to date Newquay Town Council do not appear interested and neatly side-step this issue as shown by a FAQ on their website:

I have been overcharged by 'Parking Eye' at Fistral Beach Car Park. What can I do?

This issue has come up a lot recently. The Car Park land is not owned by Newquay Town Council and so unfortunately we do not have any legal right to interfere with these matters. The Parking Eye system operates using a camera photographing your car registration details as it enters and leaves the car park. This means you need to have left by the time the ticket is due to end. You will be fined for leaving after your alloted time is up. Unfortunately there is no leeway when it comes to this. The best course of action to take is to contact Parking Eye directly by emailing them at blah blah blah. This e-mail address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it. . Or if you'd like to appeal a fine you can e-mail them at blah, blah, blah. This e-mail address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it. . We also recommend contacting Cornwall Council's Roads, Transport and Parking office on 0300 1234 222.

So as they suggest I would also include Cornwall County Council on any cc list, who are the real Landowner.

N9eav

Thankyou everyone. I feel more encouraged.

We have acknowledged the claim online, so now have a little more time... I think for good measure the local MP will get a letter as well.

N9eav

I have sent off several letters today. One to Mr Briant asking him to consider asking PE to drop the case as they have not been following the proper rules and it is affecting our friends and relatives who no longer go to Fistral. (which it true actually) Copies to Newspapers and head of tourism at Cornwall Council.

I am somewhat confused as to where the links are for bullet point defences for the court form. I click on one link and it takes me to more links, some of which no longer exist.

What is the best link please?

Should I wait and see what Mr Briant does before approaching PE with an offer as suggested by coupon mad?

Thanks