DWP Claims Estate of Mother

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The point is that the OP's parent, who had started to receive her state pension before 2010 might well have been paid in advance and therefore money might have been owed to the DWP.

With regard to any other benefits she was receiving, these might or might not have been properly payable depending on her precise circumstances, of which we have no knowledge.

missapril75

oldboy64 wrote: »

I have carried out the job as both an administrator and executor, and in all cases where a means tested benefit was involved it was pretty clear to me that the DWP were trawling to find out who had been telling porky pies when they made the claim/and or failed to inform the DWP of capital being paid to them.

That would be because the estate was worth more than they were told of. There are usually valid reasons for that such as the value of the home lived in which is disregarded or an insurance payout.

They don't investigate if the estate is not valued at more than was declared, so it's not a fishing expedition just because someone died.

It's quite pathetic that people think it is.

oldboy64

missapril75 wrote: »

That would be because the estate was worth more than they were told of. There are usually valid reasons for that such as the value of the home lived in which is disregarded or an insurance payout.

They don't investigate if the estate is not valued at more than was declared, so it's not a fishing expedition just because someone died.

It's quite pathetic that people think it is.

How would they be able to judge if the estate is valued at more than what had been declared?

These letters are received well before any formal value is put on the estate. Certainly weeks if not months before the value is disclosed to HMRC for IT purposes.

Of course it is a fishing expedition. The DWP issue these letters irrespective of any intelligence being received as to whether there is a possibility of fraud involved. They are doing nothing more than wanting to flush out any overpayment cases by issuing these letters to everyone. If that isn't fishing I don't know what it is.

I would add that the Administrator/Executor holds the same powers that the deceased had. They are under no obligation to comply with these letters, but instead the DWP should be told that they will have to wait until they are told by the Administrator/Executor if it appears that an overpayment of monies becomes apparent. What do you think the DWP will do if they refuse to get involved in this fishing expedition - not a lot.
It is for the Administrator/Executor to deal with the estate not for the DWP to want to go fishing at the estate's expense.

antrobus

oldboy64 wrote: »

... What do you think the DWP will do if they refuse to get involved in this fishing expedition - not a lot.
....

They will wait until the information becomes available through the probate process and make their calculations. If there is money due to DWP, and the estate has already been distributed, they'll trace it into the hands of the beneficiaries, failing which the executor/administrator will be personally liable. A sensible executor will therefore co-operate with DWP, because the sooner they get the info, the sooner they'll reach a decision. No sensible executor would want to distribute the estate before getting the all-clear from the DWP.

oldboy64

antrobus wrote: »

They will wait until the information becomes available through the probate process and make their calculations. If there is money due to DWP, and the estate has already been distributed, they'll trace it into the hands of the beneficiaries, failing which the executor/administrator will be personally liable. A sensible executor will therefore co-operate with DWP, because the sooner they get the info, the sooner they'll reach a decision. No sensible executor would want to distribute the estate before getting the all-clear from the DWP.

No Administrator or Executor should distribute anything until all debts have been proven and a notice in the London Gazette requesting proofs by a certain date has expired.

What I was trying to say is that the DWP would be putting the estate to an expense if the Administrator or Executor had to comply with what they asked.

The DWP should wait for the Administrator or Executor to contact them asking them to prove any debt that they think is owing. If they can't prove their debt due to lack of evidence which is held by the Administrator or Executor - then the DWP should be put on notice for them to supply details of the precise evidence they require and on what basis are they asking for it and what evidence is there that they believe a debt actually exists. If it is found to be a fishing expedition, the Administrator or Executor is well within their rights to demand a financial settlement if the estate has been put to any undue expense.

What you must remember is that it is for the DWP to prove that there is a debt. If they want to go on a fishing expedition, then the Administrator or Executor is under no legal obligation to co-operate.

Nighthawkx15

To clarify she got about 25 pounds on pension credit at the end, it rose from 12 in 2005. She went to Age Concern for advice on her pension credit and confirmed all her assets and saving these are all written on her pension credit confirmation statement from the DWP, it is all there, in fact more than she had is there
Where her pension came from I have no idea. She certainly did not have more than 25 years NI payments, she was married twice and was a carer for her mother. What those calculations are for her pension allocation 21 years ago, I have no idea and no data to check it. And if her pension entitlement was wrong presumably all pension related benefits were wrong too.

antrobus

oldboy64 wrote: »

No Administrator or Executor should distribute anything until all debts have been proven and a notice in the London Gazette requesting proofs by a certain date has expired.....

Yes, but that's not the question being asked.

And as far the rest, I don't see the point in picking a fight with the DWP and making life difficult.

Nighthawkx15 wrote: »

To clarify she got about 25 pounds on pension credit at the end, it rose from 12 in 2005. She went to Age Concern for advice on her pension credit and confirmed all her assets and saving these are all written on her pension credit confirmation statement from the DWP, it is all there, in fact more than she had is there..

Then you'll have no problem, and the DWP will be making no claim.

Nighthawkx15 wrote: »

...Where her pension came from I have no idea. She certainly did not have more than 25 years NI payments, she was married twice and was a carer for her mother. What those calculations are for her pension allocation 21 years ago, I have no idea and no data to check it. And if her pension entitlement was wrong presumably all pension related benefits were wrong too.

The DWP aren't interested in recalculating her state pension entitlement.

missapril75

oldboy64 wrote: »

How would they be able to judge if the estate is valued at more than what had been declared?

When DWP is notified of the death of a recipient of a means tested benefit, part of the action taken is advising HQ (or whatever branch is responsible currently) how much capital was reported at the time of death.

If it appears the estate is valued at more than that sum DWP gets told. If it's not, they don't. So they only investigate where it is.

It's that simple.

oldboy64

antrobus wrote: »

Yes, but that's not the question being asked.

And as far the rest, I don't see the point in picking a fight with the DWP and making life difficult.

.

The DWP have been a source of irritation in my life.

If they are one department that truly deserves regular battles it is them.

My father had regular battles with HMRC year in year out - the thorn in my side is the DWP and the level of quality, or I should say inadequate standard of the staff that they employ.

If I went through life taking the easy route with every government department I dread to think how I might have been walked over.

oldboy64

missapril75 wrote: »

When DWP is notified of the death of a recipient of a means tested benefit, part of the action taken is advising HQ (or whatever branch is responsible currently) how much capital was reported at the time of death.

If it appears the estate is valued at more than that sum DWP gets told. If it's not, they don't. So they only investigate where it is.

It's that simple.

But they don't. They send out these stupid letters willy nilly to all and everybody. Are you seriously trying to tell me that the DWP get intelligence of the value of an estate before probate has been applied for? If so where from? As these letters are issued before any official body is notified of the value of the estate! As I have said they are just fishing in the hope that they may catch the few that have acted fraudulently and at the same time placing additional demands on the Administrator or Executor to carry out the fishing party for them.

I've had these letters myself and it is clear that they have no intelligence whatsoever of any wrong doing. I normally write back asking what proof do they have that the estate owes them anything and warning them that if it transpires that there was no such proof and I had incurred the estate in my extra costs, I would be looking to the DWP to reimburse the estate. More often than not they go away. Obviously if something comes to light that could well show irregularities, then I would report it to the DWP.

I am not in the habit of doing their work for them. Provide me with the evidence why they suspect fraud and I will investigate and provide the evidence - otherwise put up or shut up!