Motion Judder! Help with settings for Toshiba TV & LG Blu ray Player!

DEBTMONKEY1A

Hi guys/gals,

Have a Toshiba Regza SL738B 42 inch full HD 1080P TV ( http://www.toshiba-om.net/LCD/PDF/English/Country_Specific/SL738-1922263242-English-Specific.pdf ) & LG Blu Ray player (BD555). All connected via HDMI. Tv is 60hz but have clearview enabled on high -meaning its at 100 HZ for film playback.

I have films on my USB stick that are H264 format in HD1080P > Picture quality is FAB-pin sharp-nearly full blu ray! However...on 'wide panning' shots there is a distinct 'judder'. There are TWO output settings in the Blu Ray- 24hz & 50hz. On changing to 50hz the judder is 'slightly' better.

THe TV by the way has a 'cinema mode' which is on-which is meant to smooth out films (only memory stick films-DVD & HD playback seems fine & TV films in HD are good). The TV is 1080p & output on LG BLU Ray is set to 1080p also.

If anyone can tell me in 'baby' language if I can tweak any settings to get rid of this???

:beer:

PS_had some FAB info from you guys on the BLU RAY/DVD judder issues-which is now sorted. It's just the USB playback of 1 to 2gb size hd264 1080p moviews where I get the slight 'judder'. I wonder-the 'clearframe' 100hz refresh rate-could that have any bearing as essentially these are compressed hd videos?

DEBTMONKEY1A

Bumpety bump?

paddyrg

There may be nothing you can do - or very little at least. A Bluray disc contains upto 50GB of data, memory stick files are a fraction of that size, you may have discovered where the extra bytes were saved! MPEG4v10 is lossy, and whilst dashed clever has to throw some data away to get small files. Uncompressed, we'd be talking terabytes of data for a film!

Other contributory factors might be the limitations of the USB stick or TV interface unable to steam data fast enough, or also the fact that films shot at 24/25 fps should not fast pan. This is why football looks worse in 25p than 50i, and the opposite for dramas.

DEBTMONKEY1A

paddyrg-THANKS again-you helped me before! http://www.lg.com/uk/support-product/lg-BD555 is the Blu ray Manual.

What settings would YOU use on a 1080p hd264 blu ray rip? As youknow-I'm not that technical (lol!) but read something about the fps having to be divisable by the hz refresh rate? On the 'clearview' settings on the tv (not sure I understand but my guess is the high setting is 100hz, medium 50hz & low 25hz)-which is at high (100hz)-should I alter this at all? Also...the 'cinema'' mode (which you & allrig I think?) advised me on 2 years ago-I'm guessing that even though the BR is hugely compressed it should be the same as a real BR disc & set to off?

Again-thanks for taking the time to advise!

paddyrg

Hiya,

Nice to hear I helped in the past :-)

The problem we have is that there are so many unknowns in the chain, and some will interact to give you a better/worse experience. 'Clearview' might be framerate oversampling, but it may also do other things to the signal. 'Cinema mode' will again do a bunch of presets to make the best of most files/films, but again it has no industry standard meaning.

On the plus side, if you experiment, you won't break anything as long as you keep notes of the other settings you were happy with so you can always go back!

The manuals don't talk a whole heap about using USB - it's a bit of a marginal/extra functionality so their support can be a bit thready. I can think of any number of devices I've bought where the non-core bits were a bit flaky - they were added by the marketing department then the engineers nailed the functionality onto the side! In this case, for instance, the USB compressed video files might not even be routed through the same motion smoothing chips inside the devices.

I honestly don't think there will be a whole heap you can do to make it as smooth as using a 'proper' bluray disc. Every marginal improvement from experimenting is a 'win', but you may never get quite what you are hoping for. Maybe someone else has some ideas, but I'm afraid this time I'm at a loss...not so much help this time, am I? ;-)

DEBTMONKEY1A

No probs! The only deffo improvement is playing the 1080p hd164 at 50 hz-seems to smooth the judder a touch. I'm splitting hairs a bit as lets face it-'wide panning' shots are a fraction of the film-& the rest of it is superb quality! Will keep tweaking...lol! At the end of the day the TV & BLU ray player give a fantastic pin sharp picture with great colour!

Just after i spoke to you (Novermber 2011!) I downloaded a free 'calibrating' tool to fine tune the tv colour, etc. Worked a treat! dead easy-you get images & you move settings to achieve optimal images-I gather it's £200 or more for a proffesional calibration! Again-thanks a lot!

S0litaire

Can you play the movie on your PC?

If the PC is powerful enough and you are getting the same 'Tearing' (as it's technically known!) then it might be the way the movie was encoded.

Otherwise the main problem might be the USB stick is too slow to send all the data to the Blu-Ray player then to the TV.

Digital movie compression work by only changing bits of the screen that need changing. So slow and static shots their is little that changes on the screen over a few seconds.

But with fast moving scenes their is a LOT of the screen that changes so the video player has to pull a lot more data from the USB stick and if it (or the machine at times!) can't handle it you will get slowdown or the tearing of the picture you describe.

DEBTMONKEY1A

Hi Sol! Will try it on the pc. Funnily enough the action shots are fine-just the slow panning shots. Will report back!

Edit.....judder is WORSE on pc! So....I'll resign myself to the fact that I've at least tweaked enough to get rid of most of the judder lol!

almillar

You want to set everything to 24Hz, or 24p. That's the way films are shot. And also turn off all those fancy features that TVs, players come with.
You'll need your manual, and probably your dictionary, but anything that mentions motion enhancement is probably messing things up.

DEBTMONKEY1A

Thanks Allmillar! The 'clearframe' thingy-is the 'low' setting on that the 24hz you mean? The blu ray player is set to 24hz. Maybe its my imagination but the h264 1080p movies on my usb stick 'seem' less jerky on 50hz? As you are more technically minded than me-could you tell me in layams terms exactly what the 'clearframe' feature does?

paddyrg

'Clearframe' is a marketing term, but is supposedly Toshiba's oversampling technology. How well it works is subjective. All these technologies may help or hinder, you have to play it by eye.

But none can make a perfect HD playback from tiny data files - there really is data missing as evidenced by the file size being a few percent of the full BluRay film. It's an absolute miracle it works as well as it does. If you've played about and got it as good as you can, that might be the best you'll get.

Technologically, it really is in the territory of what would have been impossible 10 years ago and witchcraft 15 years ago.