Disabled Person Carer Parking Ticket

JDMT

Hi Everyone!

Firstly im new to the site I came accross this site upon searching for help regarding the ticket my father received while in bluewater last month.

Bascially my mother is registered as disable, and further to this she recently broke her leg so can only walk on with a zimmer/crutches.

On the day of the ticket my father who is also her registered career and owner of the vehicle was taking her for a day out in bluewater, they parked in the disable bay and my father went to get her a wheelchair which was pre booked, upon return he collected my mum and totally forgot about displaying the blue badge.

When they returned they had received a ticket, my sister appealed it with a very compassionate letter but the appeal was refused by PCM.

I need some advice as to what I need to do from here, I was going to write a further slightly abrupt letter to PCM asking for the popla ref number and further to also state that I will be taking this as far as I can take it. Would this be a good idea, or what should I do?

The date of the ticket was End of July, and the date of the refusal was beginning of August.

Thanks in advance!

Stroma

So they haven't given the popla code, despite refusing the appeal? Yet again we see another company not abiding by the BPA Code of Practice. Write back to them and tell them they have rejected the appeal, give the popla code you are entitled too.

Be very abrupt to them, and inform them that the clock is ticking they have 35 days from the original dated letter to give the code or its deemed automatically accepted.

Once you have the code, come back here with help getting a solid defence that is almost guaranteed to work, we are currently running at 100% success rate of people who follow the advice fully.

Umkomaas

So they didn't give you a 10-digit POPLA code with their rejection? That's their first mistake.

Write back to them, enclose a copy of your wife's blue badge (not that it's required on private land, but may just speed things up) and require them to either cancel the charge, or if they do not, to provide you with a POPLA code. Should they make it necessary for you to have appeal to POPLA, you will also start proceeding wih a claim against them and Bluewater under the provisions of the Equality Act 2010. Send a copy of your letter also to Bluewater. Make sure you indicate in your letter to the PPC that you are copying it to Bluewater.

Here's something for you to read over the weekend, how a similar case blew up in the face of the PPC and the landowner.

http://forums.pepipoo.com/index.php?showtopic=75213&start=0&p=773378&#entry773378

Oh dear, guess what, the PPC was the very same PCM - how unfortunate for them

I suspect this will come to a bit of an abrupt end. If not, I'm sure Coupon-mad (who is Schoolrunmum on Pepipoo) will be along, as she loves to get her teeth into such issues. PCM - be afraid, be very afraid.

Do keep us updated on how you get along.

HTH

JDMT

Ok guys,

In the letter I have a Verification Code which is 10 digits would that be the popla code as there is nothing actually saying popla code.

Also in the apeal my sister sent she attached a copy of the blue badge which seemed to make no difference.

My thoughts were to write to popla including a copy of the registration document of the car which belongs to my dad along with proof of him being my mums carer, along with her blue badge and a written slip I got from the mobility shop saying she had a wheel chair for use on that day, would this be enough for the popla appeal?

Stroma

No that won't be enough at popla, that is mitigation and they don't do that. What you need to do is argue on points of law and breaches of the bpa code of practice.

Please read around on popla appeals, start on the sticky threads in the parking forum

JDMT

Just to update I went to bluewater again just to check a few things, Ive got details of the service co ordinator who I will be speaking to tomorrow regarding putting in a complaint of the carpark. I was told there that its a private car park which is managed by PCM.

However after reading a section of the BPA code, im not sure if im understanding this correctly but section 28.2

Entrance signs
, located at the entrance to the car park,
must tell drivers that the car park is managed and that
there are terms and conditions which they must be
aware of. Entrance signs must meet minimum general
principles and be in a standard format. The size of the sign
must take into account the expected speed of vehicles
approaching the car park.

I don't see any signs upon the entrance to the carpark which my parents have to use to get to the mobility shop which there is only 1 of.....further to this the actual signs saying its a controlled zone are right by where the disable parking bays are. Would I be correct in using this in my popla appeal?

Second do this could someone please explain to me how the equality law works in this situation as Id like to make sure I know what im on about before going ahead with the appeal.....Thanks alot guys!

Coupon-mad

Equality Act 2010 is my forte, even if I say so myself...:o I used to be a Disability Advice Manager a few years ago and was very familiar with the old DDA and then I took it upon myself on this forum to understand the (even better) Equality Act, when I saw cases like yours that I knew were in breach of the law.

A disabled bay on private land is a 'reasonable adjustment' provided by the retailer/owner/agents, for use by people who meet the definition of disability in the Equality Act, and whose medical condition causes need for that bay. As in your mother's case.

The Act is silent on 'Blue Badges' and permits' of course, because it's not about 'proving disability' it's about enabling those people who need adjustments to be allowed them, without fuss nor harassment. Which can & does even include people with no Blue Badge, in fact, because that scheme has only been nicked by the private parking companies (PPCs on this forum) to scam more people by making their 'tickets' and 'terms' mimic/impersonate Council ones. The BB scheme doesn't even apply on private land (any car park not run by a Council). Look at the leaflet that comes with the Badge, look at the 'yougov' website on the scheme and you will see it's a Council-only thing. BUT the Equality Act does apply, every time, in a customer-facing car park where the public are invited to park!

My post #24 here summarises why terms insisting on a Blue Badge (or blue hat, blue car, whatever! ) are unlawful and unenforceable terms under the Act:

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/4714743

Bottom line is, your mother was LEGALLY allowed to use that bay (and her carer) even without a Blue Badge. It is ILLEGAL to introduce terms which would have the effect of preventing a disabled person from unharassed use of a required 'reasonable adjustment'. But retailers and PPCs do not know this; 'PPC World' (the whole lot of 'em) whose agenda is MONEY ALONE do not accept it and do not care. PCM have done this before and have shown they don't give a stuff about disabled people.

As soon as PCM 'knew or should have known' about the disability (disabled VE on the car, maybe? ...if not then CERTAINLY when they got the appeal) then by continuing to harass the customer they are in breach of disability law.

So, first of all read these two threads (below) all the way through!

First, trubster on pepipoo (who, for very sound reasons, had NO Blue Badge for his disabled son, won at POPLA and then even got paid 3-figure compensation from Meadowhall by threatening to sue them over the hassle and harassment). I post as SchoolRunMum on there and helped him a little along the way:

http://forums.pepipoo.com/index.php?showtopic=75213

Caryl2506's thread about her mother, where she started off mildly like you, then realised it was illegal discrimination and 'went for the jugular' as far as the Retail Park management were concerned by sending a Letter Before Action (threatening court). Her clueless PPC were forced by their clients in the Retail Park to cancel the fake PCN (after rejecting an appeal, same as your case):

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/4244645

I think trubster's thread includes his POPLA appeal wording (and was also against PCM, so relevant for you to copy from!), but here's another example of POPLA appeal I wrote for someone like you. As you can see it pushes hard about the Equality Act but has other 'known winners' of paragraphs too, about other breaches by PPCs:

http://forums.pepipoo.com/index.php?showtopic=79656

If you adapt that one just be careful to remove stuff about UKPC's website and change the detail to PCM of course. You will notice it is similar to trubster's version anyway, in the headings. You can show us your draft here first if you want more posters' input and comments!

If this were me I would do the POPLA appeal urgently, as your first priority, because it is strictly timebound by a deadline for you, and because it costs PCM money (they have to fund the appeal!). YOU can send the appeal but I would put it in the name of the registered keeper at the bottom (write as if you are your Dad or whoever the rk is) in case POPLA faff about saying 'who are you?'. POPLA have to consider appeals from 'anyone' but we saw one recently where they faffed and deleted one as it wasn't from the registered keeper or driver. So write it and submit it in the rk's name for them.

If you send it electronically, bear in mind POPLA's website is pants and the word-count is shorter than most long appeals and will cut it off without warning. To cover this, just put a basic wording and say 'see attached appeal, POPLA please tell me immediately if you cannot read the attached PDF because your word-count box is too short for purpose where a long appeal is made'. And attach the appeal by PDF, of course, with a header with the 10 digit code on every page, so no page is mislaid when printed out at POPLA's end. Or download a POPLA form by hard copy if you can, fill it in, tick 3 out of 4 appeal grounds boxes (not the 'stolen car' one) and attach the printed appeal stapled (not paper-clipped!), with every page having the POPLA code on it of course.

Then just wait for POPLA to acknowledge it (quite soon after submission) & tell you when the decision will be made (probably October).

Then I would wait until you receive PCM's useless 'evidence pack' (September-ish) having made them pay for the POPLA appeal & photocopying & man hours!

THEN AND ONLY THEN (your final revenge!) I would send a complaint letter to the Retail Park Management (easily Googled for contact details, email). Send a strong disability breach complaint, along the lines of the one used by Caryl2506, saying they are responsible for the unlawful actions by their agent (explain the Equality Act beats unenforceable terms on signage hands down!). Demand that the fake PCN is cancelled and that your parents' car registration is added to a special Bluewater 'white list' (exempt from tickets) so that they are never subjected to this terrorism again by a firm operating a practice akin to a protection racket and who have unlawfully refused an appeal proving the disability need.

It will then be a question of who cancels this fake PCN first, POPLA or the Retail Park!

HTH