PCN Birmingham Airport APCOA

JO48

Hi,
Received a CCTV PCN for BA02-dropping off/picking up outside a designated parking area at Birmingham airport, £100 or £50 if paid within 14 days. PCN was for 09/07/2013, date of issue of this notice 25/07/2013, date notice given 29/07/2013. As this is a notice to the registered keeper of the vehicle and has exceeded the 14 days relevant period of notification, can I have the charge dismissed?

Guys_Dad

If you are saying that no ticket was on the windscreen and the first time you knew was when you received the NTK, then it is out of time, otherwise No.

JO48

There was no ticket, car stopped for less than a minute to unload cases and passengers, with engine running. Notice says that the driver is responsible to pay parking charges and to provide them with name and address of driver and pass notice to them. What is my position?

nigelbb

It's not a fine or official charge it's a speculative invoice from a private company. APCOA can only pursue the keeper of the vehicle if they don't know who the driver was & satisfy various other requirements laid down in POFA 2012. One of those requirements is that where no notice is left on the car that a Notice To Keeper is delivered no more than 14 days after the event. That's delivered not dated or posted but actually in the hands of the keeper within 14 calendar days. They are woefully out of time so now can only pursue the driver whose identity they don't know unless you tell them.

The_Slithy_Tove

nigelbb wrote: »

...various other requirements laid down in POFA 2012. One of those requirements is ...

But POFA
1) Relates to "parking" events. This is not a parking event by any definition of the word
2) POFA does not apply to roads covered by statutory authority, which includes most airport roads
Oh dear APCOA.

Guys_Dad

The_Slithy_Tove wrote: »

But POFA
1) Relates to "parking" events. This is not a parking event by any definition of the word
2) POFA does not apply to roads covered by statutory authority, which includes most airport roads
Oh dear APCOA.

Doesn't help in this case. We want POFA as it is the one thing that gets OP off the hook 100%, see below

OP, simply write back

Dear sirs,

Your reference xxxxx

I received a Notice to Keeper dated 25/7/2013 relating to an alleged incident on 9/7/2013.

As keeper of the vehicle, under the Protection of Freedoms Act 2013, the time limit for serving a Parking Charge notice based upon ANPR evidence is 14 days. (There is a different time scale when a windscreen notice had been issued, but this is not the case here).

Under these circumstances, the keeper (me) is not required to provide you with the name of the driver and you are timed out for pursuing the driver for any charges.

After checking with the relevant sections of the POFA (sections 6, 7 and 9), I expect you to cancel the charge.

Crabman

Birmingham Airport has a note on the home page about parking issues (they say the approach roads are private):

http://www.birminghamairport.co.uk/

The airport has got greedy and has increased parking prices so much that people are rightly exploring other options. When it was possible to drop-off passengers for free (as you would at a station for any other mode of transport) they didn't have these issues.

Coupon-mad

JO48 wrote: »

There was no ticket, car stopped for less than a minute to unload cases and passengers, with engine running. Notice says that the driver is responsible to pay parking charges and to provide them with name and address of driver and pass notice to them. What is my position?

Same as everyone else on here, every day, every thread, every hour, every minute someone posts and gets the same advice:

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/comment/62827554#Comment_62827554

Specific strong appeal wording for Airport/Railway land:

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/comment/62859837#Comment_62859837

Clearly you can also add the 'outside 14 days' NTK flaw to those listed on that second link. With a very strong appeal I expect APCOA will throw in the towel.

JO48

Guys_Dad wrote: »

Doesn't help in this case. We want POFA as it is the one thing that gets OP off the hook 100%, see below

OP, simply write back

Dear sirs,

Your reference xxxxx

I received a Notice to Keeper dated 25/7/2013 relating to an alleged incident on 9/7/2013.

As keeper of the vehicle, under the Protection of Freedoms Act 2013, the time limit for serving a Parking Charge notice based upon ANPR evidence is 14 days. (There is a different time scale when a windscreen notice had been issued, but this is not the case here).

Under these circumstances, the keeper (me) is not required to provide you with the name of the driver and you are timed out for pursuing the driver for any charges.

After checking with the relevant sections of the POFA (sections 6, 7 and 9), I expect you to cancel the charge.

Thanks for your help Guy's Dad, I received a letter from APCOA cancelling the PCN. I realise that there are mujtiple posts regarding PCN's, but Newbies find it difficult to find one that matches their particular circumstances. Thanks again, much appreciated.

Guys_Dad

Very glad that you got the right result without going to POPLA. Another one for coupon-mad's hall of fame.

I wonder if I, in turn, could ask you for some help for our cause here? APCOA have been issuing lots of these out of time charge notices and we have been advising others along the same lines. But in addition, coupon-mad and others have advised people to email Steve Clark at BPA about APCOA. They have ordered them to cancel charges and, we believe, may be looking at sanctions against them. If they get suspended, then they can't access DVLA to get keeper details and, in turn, lots of motorists who may not know about us or pepipoo may not be able to be contacted and will avoid being conned into paying.

If we have been of help, would you send an email to Steve Clark at BPA telling him you were sent a NtK after time and, although they backed down after a strong response, they are clearly acting unlawfully and collecting charges from uninformed motorists and what is he going to do about it?

The more complaints he gets, the more likely the BPA will suspend them.

But well done again.

HO87

Guys_Dad wrote: »

Doesn't help in this case. We want POFA as it is the one thing that gets OP off the hook 100%, see below

OP, simply write back

Dear sirs,

Your reference xxxxx

I received a Notice to Keeper dated 25/7/2013 relating to an alleged incident on 9/7/2013.

As keeper of the vehicle, under the Protection of Freedoms Act 2013, the time limit for serving a Parking Charge notice based upon ANPR evidence is 14 days. (There is a different time scale when a windscreen notice had been issued, but this is not the case here).

Under these circumstances, the keeper (me) is not required to provide you with the name of the driver and you are timed out for pursuing the driver for any charges.

After checking with the relevant sections of the POFA (sections 6, 7 and 9), I expect you to cancel the charge.

Entirely correct but I think that the The Slithy Tove's original point is that APCOA simply have no right to attempt to enforce a "Parking Charge Notice" for an event that is not - by any definition (including that used by PATAS and TPT who are shining exemplars of parking knowledge in comparison) - a parking one. In addition, the roads, aside from the fact that they may be private-owned, are almost certainly subject to byelaw coverage or even that of a permanent TRO in relation to which POFA is specifically exempted. APCOA are trying it on.

This is the sixth example of APCOA issuing POFA NtK's out of time that I have come across in the last 2 days. On that basis I recommend that the OP email the following (see below) and complain that APCOA are well outside of POFA requirements (s.9 specifically), in turn have breached the BPA's Approved Operator Scheme Code of Practice and, arguably, have wrongfully obtained registered keeper data from the DVLA (it being implicit that the obtaining of DVLA data is to enable the company to follow the law).

Emails to:

[EMAIL="Steve.C@Britishparking.co.uk"]Steve.C@Britishparking.co.uk[/EMAIL] (Steve Clark) and
[EMAIL="elizabeth.symonds@dvla.gsi.gov.uk"]elizabeth.symonds@dvla.gsi.gov.uk[/EMAIL]

Copy Steve Clark into your complaint email to the DVLA

Edit: To add - I am aware that the BPA's involvement in recent cases where APCOA have issued out-of-time NtK's has resulted in the withdrawal of the PCN's. On that basis two complaint emails is a bit of a must. There is also a chance that APCOA's copybook will be sufficiently blotted that they lose DVLA EDI access. It will also teach me to read!