Nice People Thread Part 9 - and so it continues

Nikkster

zagubov wrote: »

I'm strugging to keep up, so please correct any of my howlers
IIRC

MScs in the UK are new first (undergaduate) degrees (honours level) with an extra years tuition. MScs are postgraduate degrees.
The Oxbridge unis are mediaeval and have their own degree awarding rules and offer a BA after I think 3 years, but you can covert that to an MA by applying and paying for an upgrade some years later without extra study.

The Scottish Ancient universities just gave MAs as undergaduate degrees in arts and humanities, but BScs in Sciences. Presumably as an incentive to get people to study arts and humanities as science is a pretty big thing north of the Tweed.

I get the MSci bit (I did a 4 year undergrad as did about 50% of the people on my chemistry course).

It's just always confused me that someone might have an MA that they've 'earned' and someone else might have one was more of a 'bonus' (I would upgrade if I was offered ) - how would someone not in the know tell the difference?

Nikkster

Masomnia wrote: »

Got a BA, starting my MSc on the 16th

Could be a great opportunity, could be a huge waste of money. Kind of excited to find out.

I'm pretty certain that my MSc (obv in conjunction with the rest of my CV and my fabulous inter-personal skills) swung me my job - I did my research project where I now work

Masomnia

Nikkster wrote: »

I get the MSci bit (I did a 4 year undergrad as did about 50% of the people on my chemistry course).

It's just always confused me that someone might have an MA that they've 'earned' and someone else might have one was more of a 'bonus' (I would upgrade if I was offered ) - how would someone not in the know tell the difference?

If you get an Oxford one you'd write:

Masomnia MA (Oxon)

Rather than Masomnia BA (Hons) MA

Masters as in postgrad from Oxford would be:

Masomnia MA (Oxon) MPhil

It's (Cantab) for Cambridge.

As far as I know! But I'm happy to corrected there.

Nikkster

Masomnia wrote: »

If you get an Oxford one you'd write:

Masomnia MA (Oxon)

Rather than Masomnia BA (Hons) MA

Masters from Oxbridge are

Masomnia MA (Oxon) MPhil

It's (Cantab) for Cambridge.

As far as I know! But I'm happy to corrected there.

Ahhhh... that would make sense.
I hope no-one mistakes my MSci (Hons) for a bonus masters (joking!:D) That was 4 whole years of non-stop chemistry!

Masomnia

Nikkster wrote: »

Ahhhh... that would make sense.
I hope no-one mistakes my MSci (Hons) for a bonus masters (joking!:D) That was 4 whole years of non-stop chemistry!

I think it depends on the subject. Chemistry I'm not sure about; but with history, I wouldn't be particularly offended if someone from Oxford/Cambridge wanted to differentiate their degree from mine. Even though I went to a red brick uni I know a history degree from Oxford or Cambridge is a lot more work and more demanding than one from Sheffield.

Or maybe I'm talking myself down too much

Nikkster

Masomnia wrote: »

I think it depends on the subject. Chemistry I'm not sure about; but with history, I wouldn't be particularly offended if someone from Oxford/Cambridge wanted to differentiate their degree from mine. Even though I went to a red brick uni I know a history degree from Oxford or Cambridge is a lot more work and more demanding than one from Sheffield.

Or maybe I'm talking myself down too much

I think Cambridge it would be Natural Sciences rather than e.g. chemistry. I applied (and didn't get a place, sniff), but can't really remember.

Masomnia

Nikkster wrote: »

I think Cambridge it would be Natural Sciences rather than e.g. chemistry. I applied (and didn't get a place, sniff), but can't really remember.

As opposed to Unnatural Sciences Mwaha.



Sorry

LydiaJ

Nikkster wrote: »

I get the MSci bit (I did a 4 year undergrad as did about 50% of the people on my chemistry course).

It's just always confused me that someone might have an MA that they've 'earned' and someone else might have one was more of a 'bonus' (I would upgrade if I was offered ) - how would someone not in the know tell the difference?

If it's an Oxbridge MA it's an upgraded BA. From anywhere else it's been earned, AFAIK.

Masomnia wrote: »

If you get an Oxford one you'd write:

Masomnia MA (Oxon)

Rather than Masomnia BA (Hons) MA

Masters as in postgrad from Oxford would be:

Masomnia MA (Oxon) MPhil

It's (Cantab) for Cambridge.

As far as I know! But I'm happy to corrected there.

Absolutely. An earned masters from Oxford is definitely MPhil, but I'm not sure about Cambridge. A doctorate from Cambridge is PhD just the same as everywhere else, whereas an Oxford doctorate is DPhil. (I believe York & Sussex also used to call it DPhil, but no longer do, but I may be wrong.) Both PhD and DPhil stand for "doctor of philosophy" wherever you get them from. Mine is actually a DPhil, but I generally refer to it as a PhD when talking to anyone who isn't from Oxford.

Nowadays Oxford (and probably Cambridge I imagine) do 4 year MSci or MPhys or MEng or whatever degrees in sciences and engineering, so they aren't doing BA with possible upgrades in those subjects. They still were when I was there, though. The change came after the introduction of GCSEs and the change of A-levels to be broader but less ... err ... rigorous, when it was decided that 3 years was no longer sufficient to get school leavers to the point of being ready to start a doctorate consisting solely of research and dissertation with no taught element.

Nikkster

LydiaJ wrote: »

A doctorate from Cambridge is PhD just the same as everywhere else, whereas an Oxford doctorate is DPhil. (I believe York & Sussex also used to call it DPhil, but no longer do, but I may be wrong.) Both PhD and DPhil stand for "doctor of philosophy" wherever you get them from. Mine is actually a DPhil, but I generally refer to it as a PhD when talking to anyone who isn't from Oxford.

Nowadays Oxford (and probably Cambridge I imagine) do 4 year MSci or MPhys or whatever degrees, so they aren't doing BA with possible upgrades in those subjects. They still were when I was there, though.

I read something about DPhil/ PhD a couple of days ago - can't rememer where (wikipedia? I think I was looking for thesis length guidelines as mine is more pamphlet than multi-volume) I think you're right.

I'd be even more irritated if I was doing an MSci (etc) at Ox/Cam and I didn't get any 'bonus'., like the rest of my fellow students

Masomnia

LydiaJ wrote: »

Nowadays Oxford (and probably Cambridge I imagine) do 4 year MSci or MPhys or MEng or whatever degrees in sciences and engineering, so they aren't doing BA with possible upgrades in those subjects. They still were when I was there, though. The change came after the introduction of GCSEs and the change of A-levels to be broader but less ... err ... rigorous, when it was decided that 3 years was no longer sufficient to get school leavers to the point of being ready to start a doctorate consisting solely of research and dissertation with no taught element.

I remember when I was 15/16 I was walking down the corridor at school with a friend and we were talking about universities and degrees etc. He was looking at doing physics and he mentioned that you got a BA for doing physics at Oxford. I said I wondered why they give you a BA rather than an BSc, is it the content of the course or something, and a teacher walking in front of us stopped and turned round and said in a pretty scathing way 'Oh, it's because Oxford and Cambridge are up themselves. No other reason.'

The debate about why kids from state schools are under-represented at these universities comes up a lot, and even though I went to a decent state school a lot of the teachers had that attitude. So it really doesn't surprise me that kids from these schools aren't encouraged to apply, and aren't told that they have a realistic chance of going, or that it's worth their while.

Funny how some moments just stick in your head even though it was so long ago and it was years before the significance of it hit home.

And with that, I'll go to bed.

Night all!