Help, accused of theft at work.

Nightranger

ValHaller wrote: »

Sorry if I gave the impression that you did.

I wanted to be crystal clear about the distinction between more details emerging and OP lying ie ducking and diving in response to questions in an attempt to maintain a credible narrative.


OP thanked you after I posted, so whatever the point you were trying to make, perhaps my post was not a little late.

No worries! I just think that some people on this forum are unnecessarily picky at times. It is common enough to find that on Internet forums but there just seems to be a larger proportion of people just looking for a niggly argument here. In my reply, to the OP, I merely voiced my concern and OK, I did not give the reason for my concern and that may have led you into thinking I was suggesting something different but that is the problem with assumptions (and that applies just as much to me as it does to anyone else).

jennyjelly

RuthnJasper wrote: »

Jenny - I'm afraid I have no useful advice, but I just wanted to wish you well. I know how unpleasant this sort of thing is in any case, let alone for someone who has proven himself - over three decades - to be a conscientious and reliable employee.

It's good that the Union are offering assistance. With regard to legal help, I think some people have found that their mortgage agreement (if you have one) includes access to legal advice - perhaps one of the more knowledgeable people on here can confirm this?

Hope all turns out well.

Best wishes. xx

Marckopite wrote: »

It seems to me that you said he was due for retirement that they are looking for a cheaper way of letting him go.

Is the garage in any financial problems that they need to get rid of employees.

After 30 years service you would expect to be treated a lot better than this. Why would he risk his retirement fund for £10 spark plugs.

Thank you for your support. I do believe they are trying to get rid of him. As far as I'm aware they are not in any financial trouble but profit overides everything and as he gets older and less phsically fit he is not so able to do the heavy stuff like heaving engine parts around, and the younger ones get fed up of him asking for a hand. He would love to get out if we could afford it but we have to live!

colino

Couple of general points, new spark plugs look new for a very, very long time nowadays and if sat on a forecourt with less than a 100 miles will still look pristine. Any tech would be able to tell the difference.
Unfortunately, even with the glass and chrome palaces, money is tight and everyone is looking at their costs and laying off an old hand at the higher end of the scale is just as likely a motive for a service manager, to drum up a nonsense allegation.
Finally, if anyone accused me of theft, their feet wouldn't touch the ground, I'd be making sure every aspect of the accusation was quickly and thoroughly investigated and looking for a very swift resolution and apology. Doesn't take much to soil a good name.

jennyjelly

zzzLazyDaisy wrote: »

Jenny, I have only just come across your thread. I have skim-read the posts but I apologise if I have missed something. Happy to fill you in on anything you are unclear about. Grateful for your input!

I noted that senior management is involved - that is a good thing because they will be one step back from the issue and more able to take a balanced approach.

Has your OH been called in for a formal investigatory meeting to discuss this matter? I think that is the purpose of the meeting with senior management next week - he has been told it is so they can decide whether or not a disciplinary is appropriate.

Has he been notified in writing that he is required to attend a disciplinary meeting? No.

If you can answer those two questions I can get a feel for where you are up to.

What I can say is that no employer is going to dismiss an employee with 30yrs service and an otherwise exemplary disciplinary record without a very good reason, because the costs of getting it wrong are high if the employee goes to tribunal. The union solicitor who has been giving him advice on the phone says he will help him if it comes to that and I think he feels (though he hasn't said so) that we would have a good chance of winning.

Theft is obviously a good reason, even for something as small as a pack of spark plugs - but they have to carry out a thorough investigation and come to a honest and reasonable belief that he did in fact steal the spark plugs, they then have to follow the company's own disciplinary procedure, and even after that, the decision to dismiss must be a reasonable response. Now that he has proved beyond any doubt that the plugs on his bench were purchased from the parts dept, they are denying that they ever accused him of theft. There is nothing in writing so can't prove any different.

It sounds like they are in the 'investigation' stage - which is part of the procedure, so don't take it personally (I know it is easy for me to say)

Daisy

Many thanks for your help.

jennyjelly

Dimey wrote: »

Jenny, your husband mustn't go offering "what if" excuses. ie: maybe under pressure I didn't change them.

That's just the kind of admission someone whose got it in for him will grab and use against him. eg." if he can't remember exactly what he did then he must have taken them" or " if he can't remember, he's a liability." Too late. He was in such a panic and frightened of appearing paranoid if he said someone else must have done it (which we honestly think is the case) that he admit it could be an explanation.

Stick to the facts he knows and if he doesn't know then just say so. Get him to approach the process as though he's investigating what happened as much as the employer is. Not from a defensive stand point. He was pretty much bullied into acting this way.

It really sounds like someone has engineered this situation. If that is the case, its so, so sad to happen to someone who's given 30 years service. I'm sorry that employment culture today does this. He's not the only one, I've heard of many. I myself put up with 3 years of nasty attempted ousting before I gave up and went. Dimey that's awful, I can't believe companies can get away with this, it's just plain persecution.

Your husband will have to watch his back from here on. He'll have to start being wise to the tactics. The old etiquette and decency of work ethic has gone so he can't afford to be his nice old self. He's got to be a survivor. Head down, work by the book and cover his back. I quite agree, he has no other choice.

Try to find a senior manager who will mentor him. Be aware of the unique skills & qualities that he brings to the company so he can champion himself when he needs to. Unfortunately his skills and qualities are not much in demand in the modern employment world. He's too honest and decent and the managers of his company are not interested in either.

Can you ask for the CCTV outside the workshop, where the car was parked for sale. Especially while your husband was on holiday. That may show others looking at the car and maybe driving it into the workshop to do the dirty deed - swapping the spark plugs. They say until it comes to a disciplinary, at which point he has to be given their evidence by law, they will not release anything, whether it be the CCTV or the name of his accuser.

Your husband should add the theft of his two tools to the investigation the company is making. It may be connected. And even if it isn't the company should still investigate. The tools are probably worth more than the spark plugs. Yes they are. He has complained about the loss of his tools but they say it's not their problem.

In future your husband should take nothing personal into work and nothing from work home. No tools, no privately bought items for home. I'd be tempted to ask to be checked before leaving each day so he can never be accused of theft again. Or at least walk past the CCTV, showing he's not taking anything. Unfortunately all mechanics have to provide their own tools, yet employers generally refuse to take any responsibility for them even though they stay on their premises. He will not be buying anything from the parts dept again unless I go in and take the items home immediately.

Finally browse these websites so you get familiar with disciplinary procedures.
https://www.gov.uk/disciplinary-procedures-and-action-at-work/how-disciplinary-procedures-work

http://www.acas.org.uk/index.aspx?articleid=2177
Thank you for the links, I shall have a good read over the weekend.
Good Luck.

Thank you for your help.

zzzLazyDaisy

Okay, thanks for the update.

Again, I know it is easy for me to say, but it sounds like the senior management are doing what they are supposed to do. They are carrying out a thorough investigation into an allegation. That investigation must run its course. I agree, it sounds like the meeting next week is part of that investigation. Your OH needs to go along to it, hold his head up, be cooperative, and tell the truth. It won't help him to be secretive, or confrontational (not suggesting he would be). He also should not speculate on why someone would make up stories about him, or anything else. He just needs to tell the truth about the facts that concern him and if they ask him about anything else, if he doesn't know, that is what he says.

This meeting is not part of the disciplinary procedure.

After that meeting they will decide whether to go forward with a disciplinary. Even if they do, it does not mean that he will be dismissed. What it means is that the person doing the investigation does not have the authority to make a decision - in many companies that person is simply a fact finder. If it is a case of one person's word against another, it may still go to disciplinary, for a different senior manager to make a decision. I hope that won't happen, but just warning you in case it does.

If it does go to a disciplinary meeting, your OH should get a letter explaining why the disciplinary meeting has been called, and at that point he will be entitled to be accompanied to the meeting by his trade union representative.

Keep in touch and let us know what happens.

Dx

Dimey

Even if the company will do nothing to investigate the loss/theft of your husband's tools, your husband can still discuss it in the investigatory meeting as it illustrates whoever is stealing, is not just stealing spark plugs. They went missing at the same time.

I suggest you don't buy anything from the Parts dept, not even if you collect and take home immediately. There must be somewhere else in a nearby town you can buy parts from.

Oh I hope all goes well. Make sure hubby is well prepared for the meeting and take LazyDaisy's advice.

During the investigatory meeting your husband might want to keep an eye on why they are targeting him. If the company representatives flout discrimination laws with what they say, then keep a note and ideally get it in writing (your husband has the right to ask for a copy of the minutes of the meeting). Age discrimination may be an angle your husband can use in his defence if this develops into formal disciplinary.

Since 2010 it has been illegal to discriminate in the workplace against a person based on their age. Have a read of "The law on age discrimination" PDF at this website.

http://www.ageuk.org.uk/work-and-learning/discrimination-and-rights/ageism-in-the-workplace/

Would hubby's arthritis be at disability level nowadays? If so it might also be worth reading this.

https://www.gov.uk/discrimination-your-rights/discrimination-at-work

I'm only mentioning these things because forewarned is forearmed. When you are thrown into a situation you've never encountered before, you need to learn fast to even out the playing field.

I bet the company will be surprised when your husband speaks eloquently and knowledgeably about disciplinary procedures and employment rights at the meeting. They might think twice about pursuing a questionable course of action with someone who knows their rights. They were obviously expecting your hubby would be mild mannered and deferential, an easy touch.

Make sure you boost hubby's confidence before he goes. No need to discuss whether he does less work than he used to because of his arthritis. I bet he still does more than anyone else even if he does need the odd hand with a heavy lift now and again. I bet the customers like him. He's probably got more initiative and knowledge than the young bucks.

jennyjelly

Ok, latest update.

He has been given a letter today (as he was leaving work so no time to take any action) which starts ' The company is considering taking disciplinary action against you. You are therefore invited to attend a disciplinary hearing on Friday 9th August 2013.' At the moment we are writing a statement for him to read out as he becomes very flustered and tongue tied in stressful situations and we know he won't say half the things he needs to.

He is going to ring the union rep tomorrow to see if someone can come and support him, but as it is very short notice does he have he right to insist on a delay if the rep can't make it on Friday? Also do they have tio let him use their fax machine to send copies of the paperwork to the union? Sorry if these things seem a bit trivial but it's the little things that make it all so worrying.

Is now the time to put a grievance in about how this has been dealt with or should he wait and see what the outcome is?

At the meeting he raised the issue of his workstation being searched without his presence or permission and they say that they only touched company property, not his own things. This is included in the minutes of the first meeting. He also said that two of his tools were missing after the search but they refused to minute this as they say it is not relevant. Is this correct or can it be included in any grievance?

I do think that he will be let off with a slapped wrist but it has all been handled so badly that I really don't want to let it go.

Thank you in advance.

elsien

The rep should be able to help him with asking for another date if the rep isn't available on Friday.
He is also entitled to get copies of all the evidence/statements against him before the meeting (ie with plenty of time to look at them properly, not 5 minutes before he walks in the door).

colino

A point I forgot that anyone buying high volume (high mark-up!) components like spark plugs here get a special receipt acknowledging their staff discount. Surely hubby and the company have something similar?