Help, accused of theft at work.

Nightranger

jennyjelly wrote: »

Different plugs fit different cars, and the ones he apparently stole wouldn't fit any car owned by anyone we know. How we would prove that I don't know though.

I am not sure why this is a point you feel you should defend, I doubt if the person that allegedly reported the theft bothered to ascertain what model the spark plugs were. As with others on this thread, I am a bit concerned that your story keeps changing and that you are avoiding some questions.

jennyjelly

Nightranger wrote: »

I am not sure why this is a point you feel you should defend, I doubt if the person that allegedly reported the theft bothered to ascertain what model the spark plugs were. As with others on this thread, I am a bit concerned that your story keeps changing and that you are avoiding some questions.

Sorry, what questions am I avoiding and in what way does my story keep changing? I'm getting all this second hand don't forget, and posting here as it is unfolding. Not sure what your point is.

In the post you quote I was simply answering another poster's question.

To clarify: he was accused of stealing plugs that were supposed to be fitted in a car. He can prove with a receipt that the plugs on his bench were bought and paid for so that part of the issue should be sorted. The other side of the matter is that there were still old plugs in the car he was working on. He is adamant that he replaced the plugs so how this can be is unexplained. The only possibility he can come up with is that he took the old plugs out, and then for some reason (pressure of work, constant interruptions etc) put the old ones back in by mistake and binned the new ones thinking they were the old ones. The only other possible solution is that someone else changed them - as I said, they will be glad to see the back of him and sacking him for misconduct would be a cheap way of doing it, though whether an outwardly reputable company would stoop so low is debatable.

Please remember that this is an important issue for us and I cam on here looking for advice, I'm not just posting for your entertainment!

Nightranger

jennyjelly wrote: »

Sorry, what questions am I avoiding and in what way does my story keep changing? I'm getting all this second hand don't forget, and posting here as it is unfolding. Not sure what your point is.

In the post you quote I was simply answering another poster's question.

To clarify: he was accused of stealing plugs that were supposed to be fitted in a car. He can prove with a receipt that the plugs on his bench were bought and paid for so that part of the issue should be sorted. The other side of the matter is that there were still old plugs in the car he was working on. He is adamant that he replaced the plugs so how this can be is unexplained. The only possibility he can come up with is that he took the old plugs out, and then for some reason (pressure of work, constant interruptions etc) put the old ones back in by mistake and binned the new ones thinking they were the old ones.

Please remember that this is an important issue for us and I cam on here looking for advice, I'm not just posting for your entertainment!

Who said anything about entertainment? I understand that you might be upset but what you are describing is potentially a very serious situation and if anyone here is going to be able to offer you helpful advice then it is essential that we get to the gist of any finer details that any of us spots. Remember, if your husband's employer is serious about all this, it is more than possible that he will find himself in a position of feeling utterly persecuted and with no hope (on a separate issue, I have been there so I am speaking from experience). I am sorry to be critical but please do not lash out and even more importantly, please do not make assumptions about someone's questions. I could very easily leave you to it at this stage but that would not be very charitable. OK, that aside back to what I was asking.

The model of spark plugs seems a bit irrelevant to me given the allegation was made about these items being reported at your husband's work station. In earlier posts you have suggested that some spark plugs were at your husband's work station but they were for home use. As far as I can see, that is all that is needed in ID-ing the items because I doubt the person making the allegation made detailed notes such as part numbers etc.

The other point I asked about is far from trivial, I am not sure how anyone could make an allegation of theft based on items observed still on the premises. It is irrelevant if the spark plugs were seen at your husband's work station and then disappeared, for this to really work, your husband would have to have been seen picking the items up or have been caught leaving the premises with them in his possession. As was pointed out quite early in this thread, the onus is on the company to prove this allegation otherwise it could escalate into defamation, which is well beyond employment tribunals. I hope it does not do that for your husband because it is not pleasant as I can testify and more than likely they will stop well short of this. Unfortunately, I cannot reassure you over what is clearly a constructive dismissal situation building even if the company backs down, as they probably will on this occasion.

Incidentally, your husband must not admit the text I have highlighted it is just a theory that your husband is not sure about. If he is not sure then he must err on the side of caution, if he is sure then there is not much point in going on with things. It won't be theft but it will give the company a new excuse for dismissing him. Sorry to be blunt but that is the reality of the awful situation he is in.

ValHaller

Nightranger wrote: »

I am not sure why this is a point you feel you should defend, I doubt if the person that allegedly reported the theft bothered to ascertain what model the spark plugs were. As with others on this thread, I am a bit concerned that your story keeps changing and that you are avoiding some questions.

As I see it the story is not changing (ie OP ducking and diving). It is more a case of new information coming out which puts the situation in a different light.

Please be careful. Sometimes it is justified to accuse posters of lying - in which case you need to be specific. But if you are not making an accusation that OP is lying, what you have written certainly suggests that you think she is.

Nightranger

ValHaller wrote: »

As I see it the story is not changing (ie OP ducking and diving). It is more a case of new information coming out which puts the situation in a different light.

Please be careful. Sometimes it is justified to accuse posters of lying - in which case you need to be specific. But if you are not making an accusation that OP is lying, what you have written certainly suggests that you think she is.

Nope, that is merely your interpretation and I was not the only person to mention this if you read the whole thread. My concern was that it is difficult to give advice when different things keep coming up and I think that has been reflected in the fact that some of the original advice has been rendered obsolete by later information.

BTW, I never used the term 'ducking and diving'. The OP obviously missed some of the questions, probably out of stress over the situation and I wanted to make her aware of the fact. I am in the middle of a bad situation myself and I have already experienced how horrible the questioning can be. Unfortunately, in my case things escalated so far that I have had to bring in solicitors hence why I cannot talk about anything in detail but suffice to say, I was the victim yet things have been completely reversed on me. The OP thanked me for my last post so your post is a little late.

RuthnJasper

Jenny - I'm afraid I have no useful advice, but I just wanted to wish you well. I know how unpleasant this sort of thing is in any case, let alone for someone who has proven himself - over three decades - to be a conscientious and reliable employee.

It's good that the Union are offering assistance. With regard to legal help, I think some people have found that their mortgage agreement (if you have one) includes access to legal advice - perhaps one of the more knowledgeable people on here can confirm this?

Hope all turns out well.

Best wishes. xx

Marckopite

It seems to me that you said he was due for retirement that they are looking for a cheaper way of letting him go.

Is the garage in any financial problems that they need to get rid of employees.

After 30 years service you would expect to be treated a lot better than this. Why would he risk his retirement fund for £10 spark plugs.

ValHaller

Nightranger wrote: »

BTW, I never used the term 'ducking and diving'.

Sorry if I gave the impression that you did.

I wanted to be crystal clear about the distinction between more details emerging and OP lying ie ducking and diving in response to questions in an attempt to maintain a credible narrative.

Nightranger wrote: »

The OP thanked me for my last post so your post is a little late.

OP thanked you after I posted, so whatever the point you were trying to make, perhaps my post was not a little late.

Dimey

Jenny, your husband mustn't go offering "what if" excuses. ie: maybe under pressure I didn't change them.

That's just the kind of admission someone whose got it in for him will grab and use against him. eg." if he can't remember exactly what he did then he must have taken them" or " if he can't remember, he's a liability."

Stick to the facts he knows and if he doesn't know then just say so. Get him to approach the process as though he's investigating what happened as much as the employer is. Not from a defensive stand point.

It really sounds like someone has engineered this situation. If that is the case, its so, so sad to happen to someone who's given 30 years service. I'm sorry that employment culture today does this. He's not the only one, I've heard of many. I myself put up with 3 years of nasty attempted ousting before I gave up and went.

Your husband will have to watch his back from here on. He'll have to start being wise to the tactics. The old etiquette and decency of work ethic has gone so he can't afford to be his nice old self. He's got to be a survivor. Head down, work by the book and cover his back.

Try to find a senior manager who will mentor him. Be aware of the unique skills & qualities that he brings to the company so he can champion himself when he needs to.

Can you ask for the CCTV outside the workshop, where the car was parked for sale. Especially while your husband was on holiday. That may show others looking at the car and maybe driving it into the workshop to do the dirty deed - swapping the spark plugs.

Your husband should add the theft of his two tools to the investigation the company is making. It may be connected. And even if it isn't the company should still investigate. The tools are probably worth more than the spark plugs.

In future your husband should take nothing personal into work and nothing from work home. No tools, no privately bought items for home. I'd be tempted to ask to be checked before leaving each day so he can never be accused of theft again. Or at least walk past the CCTV, showing he's not taking anything.

Finally browse these websites so you get familiar with disciplinary procedures.
https://www.gov.uk/disciplinary-procedures-and-action-at-work/how-disciplinary-procedures-work

http://www.acas.org.uk/index.aspx?articleid=2177

Good Luck.

zzzLazyDaisy

Jenny, I have only just come across your thread. I have skim-read the posts but I apologise if I have missed something.

I noted that senior management is involved - that is a good thing because they will be one step back from the issue and more able to take a balanced approach.

Has your OH been called in for a formal investigatory meeting to discuss this matter?

Has he been notified in writing that he is required to attend a disciplinary meeting?

If you can answer those two questions I can get a feel for where you are up to.

What I can say is that no employer is going to dismiss an employee with 30yrs service and an otherwise exemplary disciplinary record without a very good reason, because the costs of getting it wrong are high if the employee goes to tribunal.

Theft is obviously a good reason, even for something as small as a pack of spark plugs - but they have to carry out a thorough investigation and come to a honest and reasonable belief that he did in fact steal the spark plugs, they then have to follow the company's own disciplinary procedure, and even after that, the decision to dismiss must be a reasonable response.

It sounds like they are in the 'investigation' stage - which is part of the procedure, so don't take it personally (I know it is easy for me to say)

Daisy