Parking Charge Notice - CP PLUS

Therese1

Hi, I'm looking for some advice please.

Today I received a Charge Notice from CP PLUS for parking at a Motorway Services at the beginning of the month. I stopped there to rest and actually fell asleep - but no one came and "chased me" or said I was overstaying my welcome (over 2 hours).

My friends have said there is no legal requirement to pay this charge - but I don't feel comfortable just "ignoring" it as they say - but neither do I want to pay £90 for a 3 hour stay at a motorway services!! Seems rather excessive to me!

Do I have any right to appeal or do I ignore as suggested?
It is a company car so presmuably they got my details from my employer - CCTV photo going in and leaving the area.

Thanks

zzzLazyDaisy

Therese1 wrote: »

Do I have any right to appeal or do I ignore as suggested?
It is a company car so presmuably they got my details from my employer - CCTV photo going in and leaving the area.

Thanks

Yes the notice to keeper will have gone to your employer who has identified you as 'the driver'You are lucky! Most employers pay these things and send you the bill!

Ignoring is old advice.

The current advice is to do a 'soft' appeal to the PPC as 'the Driver' (not admitting who was driving). The PPC will almost certainly refuse your appeal but the purpose is to get a verification code so you can appeal to POPLA. You then need to send a robust appeal to POPLA. The regular posters have 100% success rate for people who follow their advice.

Have a look at the stickies at the top of this thread and do a search for 'soft appeal'

It is also worth doing a search for 'motorway service area', 'welcome break', 'moto' etc so you get a feel for what the additional issues are on MSA's. In particularly, you are allowed BY LAW two hours parking. That's actual parking and doesn't include calling in for petrol, checking air in your tyres, drivinga round looking for a space etc. The cameras clock you in and out but cannot monitor the actual time spent parking.

In addition they have to give you a 'grace period' so depending on how long you overstayed, this might be relevant to the appeal. Either way if you follow advice on here, you won't be paying anything

If you post your appeal to CP Plus here, before sending it, someone will check it over for you. Note don't respond to PMs unless you check here first - the PPC do read these forums and may just offer to 'help' you

Watch the time limit for appealing.

Therese1

Thank you for your reply and advice. I definitely feel more comfortable appealling than ignoring!

However, can you point me to the "soft appeal" section - I am struggling to find anything specific. Is there any template or wording that I can start with?

thanks again

zzzLazyDaisy

Hi, we don't do template letters because each case is different, but also because the PPCs sometimes reject 'template letters'.

If you go to the top right of the page you will see a 'search' tab.

Click on that and enter the combination of words into the search box. So I suggest that you start with a search on posts with 'soft appeal' which will give you the gist of what we mean.

There are also some threads specific to motorway service areas. I'll have a look round and find something for you.

Dx

EDIT: Have a look at coupon-mad's post at post 2 of this thread.

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/4714233

She's very hot on MSA's, and her post points to some of the relevant law. Advice varies as to how 'soft' your appeal should be - basically you need to say enough for it to be recognised as an appeal without going overboard. My own view is that if you tailor the appeal to the law as it relates to the facts of your own specific situation you may just have a chance of succeeding at appeal at PPC stage (but don't hold your breath!).

Also if you let us know how long you overstayed it might be worth mentioning a grace period - but we will help you with that.

Just have a go at drafting an appeal, keeping it fairly succinct, referring to 'the driver' rather than 'I' and remembering to close by asking for a POPLA code and inviting them to cancel the charges.

Something like this:

"In the light of the above information I invite you to uphold this appeal and cancel the charge. However if you reject this appeal the Driver requires (within 35 days) a POPLA verification code to enable the Driver to appeal independently. This is in accordance with the BPA Code of Practice. Should this become necessary the Driver reserves the right to drawn any other relevant matters to the attention of POPLA that may subsequently come to the Driver's attention."

PRINT YOUR NAME - DON'T SIGN IT

Orrin

Therese1 wrote: »

However, can you point me to the "soft appeal" section - I am struggling to find anything specific. Is there any template or wording that I can start with?

It's not that important as the PPC will almost certainly refuse your appeal whatever you say.

In general you don't want to identify the driver so it's a good idea to write the appeal as "the keeper" and refer to the driver in the third person.

Although in your case if your employer has identified you as the driver the PPC will take that as fact so there's probably not much point being coy about it now.

Therese1

Thanks again for your advice folks! I have had a go at a draft letter - could you please let me know what you think? I have deliberately mentioned driver rather than keeper (since I guess my employer is the registered keeper!?)

MY NAME
MY ADDRESS - presumably don't want to give them my phone number??!
An invoice was recently received from your company with reference number XXX dated xxx.
Unfortunately the driver denies all liability to your company. The driver is appealing because they do not recognise your authority to offer any contracts to parking motorists in this car park.
In the light of the above information I invite you to uphold this appeal and cancel the charge. However if you reject this appeal the Driver requires (within 35 days) a POPLA verification code to enable the driver to appeal independently. This is in accordance with the BPA Code of Practice. Should this become necessary the driver reserves the right to draw any other relevant matters to the attention of POPLA that may subsequently come to the driver's attention.
The driver has nothing further to add and is unwilling to respond to any further correspondence in the absence of a POPLA code.
The denial of liability will be deemed as accepted by the company if any further correspondence lacks a POPLA code within the timeframe stated above.
Yours sincerely,
PRINT NAME

Therese1

couple more questions/points sorry....!

Should I mention the fact that they clocked me in and out but not actually parking? I did go over by an hour but this is because I fell asleep and then got a quick cuppa and then petrol.

Also, should I send it registered post? I obviously will keep a copy of the letter. Presumably email is pointless?

thanks again

Guys_Dad

I worry that the PPCs are refusing to supply POPLA codes on the sort of appeal that worked a month or so ago.

I think you need to put something different in, even a mitigation appeal, such as I was unaware of the time limit on the car park. Then add at the end that you reserve the right to research the whole matter of Private Parking and add further points at the POPLA stage.

The aim is to get a POPLA code and whatever it takes.,,,,,

zzzLazyDaisy

Guys_Dad wrote: »

I worry that the PPCs are refusing to supply POPLA codes on the sort of appeal that worked a month or so ago.

I think you need to put something different in, even a mitigation appeal, such as I was unaware of the time limit on the car park. Then add at the end that you reserve the right to research the whole matter of Private Parking and add further points at the POPLA stage.

The aim is to get a POPLA code and whatever it takes.,,,,,

I agree, I think we need to be tailoring the 'soft' appeal to the facts of the individuals case. So not a full POPLA appeal, but combining a more robust 'this is what happened and this is why I think legally it is bang out of order to charge me' approach'.

Therese you made a great stab at a first draft, well done. I'd like to come back if I may and just pull in a bit about motorway service signs and the ANPR/parking/petrol/ driving around issue.

I won't be around much tomorrow but if you can hang on, I will get back to you tomorrow evening.

Daisy

Therese1

Thank you so much Daisy....any help and advice you can give me is much appreciated! I'll wait! T

zzzLazyDaisy

Therese1 wrote: »

I guess my employer is the registered keeper!?) yes

MY NAME
MY ADDRESS - presumably don't want to give them my phone number??! NO!

An invoice was recently received from your company with reference number XXX dated xxx for vehicle reg number xxxx for overstaying at [insert name/location motor way service area]
[STRIKE]Unfortunately[/STRIKE] The driver denies all liability to your company. The driver is appealing against this chargebecause oon the day in question the Driver had driven a long way and was very tired. Mindful of the signs saying 'take a break' the Driver pulled onto the motorway service area for a rest. The Driver did not see the signs on entering the motorway service area. The Driver then drove round the car park looking for a quiet place to rest without being disturbed and having found such a space at the far side of the service area, parked up and promptly fell asleep, still not having seen the signs.

On waking the Driver drove back around the car park to the fuel station, went into the shop to the coffee machine, took some while to work out how to use it, went to the till and paid for the coffee, then returned to the car and sat and drank the coffee. The Driver then drove round to the fuel pump and filled up with petrol, then queued at the till to pay, before returning the vehicle and resuming the journey.

The Driver understands that it is a legal requirement for the motorway service area to provide two hours free parking in order for drivers to take a proper rest break from driving for health and safety reasons. While the driver accepts that your ANPR cameras logged the vehicle on entering and leaving the service area, for the reasons stated above, this is NOT an accurate record of the time that the Driver was parked taking the legal rest break.

Further the Driver disputes the accuracy of the ANPR equipment and requires full documentary evidence of the maintenance and calibration of the equipment as required by the BPA code of conduct

In addition after checking your signage and the BPA guidelines the Driver believes that the signs are defective and further that they do not comply with the standards laid down in TSRGD 2002 for motorway service areas

Even if there was a parking overstay (which is denied) the Driver contends that the only possible loss is the £10 charge for 24 hrs parking after the first two hours free parking. AS such the £90 charge that you are demanding from me is 'punitive and unreasonable', and/or can in no way be justified as a 'genuine pre-estimate of loss', and therefore contravenes para 19 of the BPA code of conduct. If you are claiming that this charge is legally justified and within the terms of the code of practice, please send me a detailed breakdown of the alleged loss showing how the charge has been calculated.



In the light of the above information I invite you to uphold this appeal and cancel the charge. However if you reject this appeal the Driver requires (within 35 days) a POPLA verification code to enable the driver to appeal independently. This is in accordance with the BPA Code of Practice. Should this become necessary the driver reserves the right to draw any other relevant matters to the attention of POPLA that may subsequently come to the driver's attention.
The driver has nothing further to add and is unwilling to respond to any further correspondence in the absence of a POPLA code.
This denial of liability will be deemed as accepted by the company if any further correspondence lacks a POPLA code within the timeframe stated above.
Yours sincerely,
PRINT NAME

Have a look at this. What I am aiming for is to combine the mitigating circumstances of your own visit with the legal issues that have arisen from that, so that the appeal letter addresses the facts of your own case rather than being a generic template letter. Obviously you may need to make changes to the final version to reflect the facts of your own case, but you get the gist. Please wait for some of the regular posters to comment as they are more experienced 'on the ground' at these things than I am and may wish to suggest other changes.

Daisy .

EDIT - just to say that there is no reason to believe this style of appeal is any more likely to be upheld than the generic ones, but at least it shouldn't be rejected for not being a 'proper appeal' as has been happening with some PPCs, and also it gives you the beginnings of a framework for the start of your appeal to POPLA.

Also in the (very very unlikely) event that this should ever result in a court action, you have a clear letter setting out your reasonable approach to settling this issue from the outset.

NOTE TO REGULAR POSTERS: I realise this approach is a departure from the way we have dealt with appeals in the past. I have very broad shoulders - feel free to make any comments you wish - part of the purpose of this exercise is to try and 'fine tune' a slightly more robust approach to PPC appeals as recently suggested by Coupon-mad, and others.

Dx