Blu-Ray player cant play latest discs- SOGA?

jacques_chirac

Jonl wrote: »

I wasn't aware and was not told that a player that plays Bul-Rays may well not play them in two years time- a requirement that sounds reasonable.

I doubt Tesco were either.

How much was the player? I am wondering if all your effort is going to be worth the reward.

Jonl

visidigi wrote: »

Surely tesco can't see into the future and therefore the stance here is was it fit for purpose when bought, the answer to that question is yes. And it could play all discs released up to purchase at least. It's then worked for a further period of time without issue,

Is it that discs won't pay at all or that certain features won't play?

The blu ray discs have warning on them, but that still doesn't make tesco obligated to update the firmware, indeed in cheap machines this can sometimes never be possible...

It won't play certain new discs at all. It's not that I'm expecting it to play the advanced online features that require better functions, I just expect it to play the movie as was intended. These discs aren't playing because there needs to be a firmware update.

The model can be upgraded online, however they aren't supplying an update; if changing the "magic number" is part of the design and is a requirement for the player to be able to continue to play discs then it sounds reasonable that these updates should continue beyond 2 years.

visidigi

Jonl wrote: »

I agree, but Tesco do choose whether or not to buy in the model and sell it to their customers; if it's own-branded, then they agree the specification and the support required from their supplier before selling to their customers. In this case it's not that technology has moved forward or that the unit cannot be updated - it seems that Tesco (or their supplier) have decided not to issue an update (or the supplier haven't been paid to issue an update), and this is the reason it won't play certain new discs.

I wasn't aware and was not told that a player that plays Bul-Rays may well not play them in two years time- a requirement that sounds reasonable. Had I been made aware of this, then I would not have purchased it. If it was a different format and technology had moved forward then I'd totally get it, but that is not the case.

You aren't told it may not work in two years because they wouldn't know. The format has fundamentally changed, in so much as in order to play the keys must match, those keys have been changed, therefore it's a changed format - this is not a serial number, this is a specific code that requires the blu ray format to play discs. The problem is those discs came after the player was released - no one can predict the future - in your case you wish they would update the firmware, they sent going to, by not doing so the machine does not become unfit for purpose as all titles released prior to purchase and all those released for two years after work fine.

As previously indicated, any refund would be proportional in line with what the law states they can do and therefore you would not get enough back to purchase a machine with the required functionality.

Jonl

jacques_chirac wrote: »

I doubt Tesco were either.

How much was the player? I am wondering if all your effort is going to be worth the reward.

From memory around £50-60; not a huge amount but I wouldn't expect it to no longer play discs consistently within 2 years because it's no longer being supported.

jacques_chirac

Jonl wrote: »

From memory around £50-60; not a huge amount but I wouldn't expect it to no longer play discs consistently within 2 years because it's no longer being supported.

They are far cheaper now, you can easily get one for £20. Is it worth going to all this effort over?

(Are you sure it cost that much? We got one in December 2010 for £39 - I've still got the email confirmation for it.)

Jonl

visidigi wrote: »

You aren't told it may not work in two years because they wouldn't know. The format has fundamentally changed, in so much as in order to play the keys must match, those keys have been changed, therefore it's a changed format - this is not a serial number, this is a specific code that requires the blu ray format to play discs. The problem is those discs came after the player was released - no one can predict the future - in your case you wish they would update the firmware, they sent going to, by not doing so the machine does not become unfit for purpose as all titles released prior to purchase and all those released for two years after work fine.

As previously indicated, any refund would be proportional in line with what the law states they can do and therefore you would not get enough back to purchase a machine with the required functionality.

I understand but disagree; if changing the keys is part of the format and how it remains secure, then it's not that the format has moved forward but that the keys have changed which requires a firmware update. I would therefore consider it reasonable that a retailer would be aware that keys will change over time as it's part of the format design.

visidigi

Jonl wrote: »

I understand but disagree; if changing the keys is part of the format and how it remains secure, then it's not that the format has moved forward but that the keys have changed which requires a firmware update. I would therefore consider it reasonable that a retailer would be aware that keys will change over time as it's part of the format design.

The format doesn't have to move forward to change. The keys have been changed in the disc, not the player, therefore the format has changed. The player still works with the discs on sale at the time a d also for the two yeas since you bought the player.

You can disagree with me, but unless its different to everyother electronic item ive bought it has a disclaimer in regards to ongoing compatibility and functionality.

vyle

This is an issue that may become more of a problem as time goes on.

On one hand, one could say (in Tesco's favour) that the BD player performed as expected, to specification at the time of purchase. It was cheap because it likely didn't have an internet connection and was sold without the expectation of software updates (something customers even now are dead against for some reason).

It could be argued that in buying a cheap player, when it's been well documented since around 2008 that the BD format is highly volatile and needs constant software updates, that as a buyer, this was to be expected and Tesco provided a cheap machine at the time as an option for the consumer who would rather replace than pay extra for ongoing software updates.

That being said, it could also be argued that in selling a player that is unable to keep up with a volatile format, Tesco are knowingly selling something that is unable to play the format as one might expect.

So whose fault is it? The person knowingly buying cheap; therefore arguably buying something that nobody should expect to receive ongoing software support, or Tesco; for knowlingly manufacturing/selling something that will not be updated when they know that BD is volatile system that needs updates.

Jonl

visidigi wrote: »

The format doesn't have to move forward to change. The keys have been changed in the disc, not the player, therefore the format has changed. The player still works with the discs on sale at the time a d also for the two yeas since you bought the player.

You can disagree with me, but unless its different to everyother electronic item ive bought it has a disclaimer in regards to ongoing compatibility and functionality.

I can't really think of a similar example where a product acts like this or where a product says that it may not operate in a similar way in the future. For me the difficulty is that the physical media hasn't changed and that the disc codes are changed on purpose by design which requires the unit to be updated, the unit comes with the ability to be updated to support the format but that the updates aren't being provided. The format was designed so that the codes can change and therefore Tesco should know and support this.

Thank you for your answer

Jonl

vyle wrote: »

This is an issue that may become more of a problem as time goes on.

On one hand, one could say (in Tesco's favour) that the BD player performed as expected, to specification at the time of purchase. It was cheap because it likely didn't have an internet connection and was sold without the expectation of software updates (something customers even now are dead against for some reason).

It could be argued that in buying a cheap player, when it's been well documented since around 2008 that the BD format is highly volatile and needs constant software updates, that as a buyer, this was to be expected and Tesco provided a cheap machine at the time as an option for the consumer who would rather replace than pay extra for ongoing software updates.

That being said, it could also be argued that in selling a player that is unable to keep up with a volatile format, Tesco are knowingly selling something that is unable to play the format as one might expect.

So whose fault is it? The person knowingly buying cheap; therefore arguably buying something that nobody should expect to receive ongoing software support, or Tesco; for knowlingly manufacturing/selling something that will not be updated when they know that BD is volatile system that needs updates.

I think that's fair and balanced, thanks. To be honest I had no idea that the player would not continue to play new discs, it has the ability to be updated so really I wouldn't think this should ever have been a problem. I'd certainly think it's more reasonable for a retailer to understand a rather technical requirement for ongoing operation than a consumer and this has certainly not been made clear.

I know that to a degree you get what you pay for and a cheaper item may wear out before a higher-end and more expensive item; I'm not sure I'd class the lack of updates as wearing out though and if it was, I'd say 2 years is insufficient.