After the Work Programme

donnajunkie

csmw wrote: »

But that's irrelevant really. It doesn't matter how the details are issued we can do it via phone or written.

Even if I don't have viewing permission I can still match to a vacancy on there and the customers would still need to provide proof of application

is there reimbursement for the cost of the printing of all this evidence? can people print it in the jobcentres new computer rooms? i've never been asked for it by the way. the diary sheets are enough.

donnajunkie

csmw wrote: »

I wouldn't match to a vacancy a customer said they had already applied to, it would be a new one and want proof

so even if they do allow access to ujm they still have to spend a fortune on printing everything they apply for on other sites and via email etc?

sensibleadvice

csmw wrote: »

Claimant commitments are being rolled out, they will eventually replace the jsags

https://www.gov.uk/government/policies/simplifying-the-welfare-system-and-making-sure-work-pays/supporting-pages/introducing-the-jobseekers-allowance-claimant-commitment

some info here.

Great link and clarity on claimant commitment and responsibility.

The Claimant Commitment is a new form of the Jobseeker’s Agreement that outlines what jobseeking actions a claimant must carry out while receiving Jobseeker’s Allowance (JSA). It emphasises claimants’ responsibility to do all they can to look for work in return for the support they receive from the state.

We are introducing the JSA Claimant Commitment in around 100 Jobcentres a month, until it is in place across the country by spring 2014.

What the JSA Claimant Commitment means
When someone makes a new claim for JSA or returns to JSA from the Work Programme they will attend an interview with a work coach. At the interview they will agree a personal plan outlining what the claimant will do as part of their Claimant Commitment to give themselves the best chance of finding work. This could include regular specific tasks and training opportunities. The work coach will explain the penalties claimants could face for failing to meet their responsibilities to get into work. They will review the plan regularly.

The Claimant Commitment strengthens the ability of Jobcentre Plus staff to support claimants back into work at the earliest opportunity and redefines the relationship between the welfare state and claimants. In return for state support, we expect claimants to do all they can to meet their responsibilities to return to work.

sensibleadvice

sniggings wrote: »

that might be true if all JSA claimants were long term unemplyed, that fact is, most claimants are only on JSA for a matter of a few months, then find work.

Treating all clainmants as if they are work shy is a tactic of this tory government.

Does UJM apply from day 1?

donnajunkie

tomterm8 wrote: »

You do understand that I am not now, nor have I ever been, nor (if I have any choice) will I ever be, a Job Centre employee?

But a lot of the people who work for the Job Centre don't have much choice about it. It's hardly the most well paid or satisfying work you could do.

unless their superviser is standing over them they could avoid doing alot of what they do if they wanted to.

donnajunkie

tomterm8 wrote: »

That's just via UJM, stix. If they have your email address from other sources they can email you. And, I believe they can mandate you to provide an email address.

you have to be contactable. when they say you must have a phone number or an email address they are abusing their power.

tomterm8

donnajunkie wrote: »

you have to be contactable. when they say you must have a phone number or an email address they are abusing their power.

I don't agree. I've seen jobs where the only application method was email, and I've seen jobs where the only application method was phone. So, it's not an abuse of power in my view.

And, at the end of the day, whatever contact method you use has to suit the conditions of JSA which is that you should be available for interview immediately (or, for some within 24 or 48 hours). How can you be available for interview immediately if no one can contact you?

Which, getting back to the original point, means even if you refuse permission to access UJM they can still send you matched jobs.

iammumtoone

sensibleadvice wrote: »

They should really be sticking reasonably within your guideline ....

Reasonableness applies somewhat in the working environment too.

but the probablem is reasonably can be interpreted differently.

Take the example given hours are stated as 9-2, 8.30-2.30 clearly reasonable, 7-5 clearly unreasonable, 8-3 maybe reasonable, 8-3.30 getting unreasonable?? if it was 8-3.30 every day maybe it is, if it was 8-3.30 one day and the other days 8-2.30 maybe it isn't?? I am trying to point out an advisor could think something was reasonable, the customer not, the customer then gets sanctioned. Unless the JC define what they see as 'reasonable' it is unfair.

Take a working environment. Contract says employed must do everything reasonable (fair enough) The employer says to the employee "you are sacked you did not clean out the toilets today" employee replies "I did not realise that was required (ie reasonable), sorry I will do it next time" But is it is too late in the world of the JC there are no second chances so the employee would be out of a job (or sanctioned in the case of claimants) as they did not do something they thought was unreasonable but the employer thought it was.

sensibleadvice

sniggings wrote: »

depends what you mean by diffecult, if you mean allowing things the government has said is a free choice, then that is not being differcult.

Fact is, JSA advisers have enough powers to deal with anyone refusing to carry out the rules to claim JSA, as said applying your rights is not being diffecult, if they believe it is, change the rules.

Requesting to review progress is reasonable. Especially where there may be some doubt that the JS agreement is being met, evidence is not apparent and committment appears less than obvious.

Barriers, obstructions, evasiveness to provide information all validate the reasonableness of such a request and subsequent action if it's not forthcoming.

Think of being reasonable as an implied term.

csmw

donnajunkie wrote: »

is there reimbursement for the cost of the printing of all this evidence? can people print it in the jobcentres new computer rooms? i've never been asked for it by the way. the diary sheets are enough.

donnajunkie wrote: »

so even if they do allow access to ujm they still have to spend a fortune on printing everything they apply for on other sites and via email etc?

donnajunkie wrote: »

you have to be contactable. when they say you must have a phone number or an email address they are abusing their power.

Why would we reimburse you to prove your looking for work, It's job seekers allowance...says it all in the title don't you think.

And yes of course people can print in the jobcentes, why would we have printers attached to the customer computers otherwise?

Abuse of power lol...If you dont have an email address or phone number how are the employers going to contact you...do you think most of them will write nowadays? its a pretty reasonable request. You need to be available as well as actively seeking