EPA between spouses

Errata

I guess the likelihood of both partners losing mental capacity might strike most people as quite unusual. It happened to my mum and a little while later her husband (my stepdad). When I discussed this with social workers and dad's consultant psychiatrist I found it wasn't as unusual as I'd thought, particularly amongst couples living to a ripe old age.
However......................life is always a gamble!

EdInvestor

margaretclare wrote: »

Ed, I thought I told you ages ago that there is no way I want the council involved.

Yes I know, but it is quite possible that you could be in a position where you had no choice. Let's say one of you had a major stroke and needed round the clock care such that the cost of providing backup for the other partner to provide the care exceeded the cost of having the person stay in a nursing home.

Assuming you could not afford to pay this yourselves, do you think it would be right to try and insist that the council paid out more (of the taxpayer's money) than it needed to to provide adequate care?

margaretclare

EdInvestor wrote: »

Yes I know, but it is quite possible that you could be in a position where you had no choice. Let's say one of you had a major stroke and needed round the clock care such that the cost of providing backup for the other partner to provide the care exceeded the cost of having the person stay in a nursing home.

We have done what we can do that's humanly possible so that nursing could be carried out here in our own home.

As you yourself have pointed out, 'care' in care homes is largely bed-and-board, you likened it to holiday B&B IIRC.

Assuming you could not afford to pay this yourselves, do you think it would be right to try and insist that the council paid out more (of the taxpayer's money) than it needed to to provide adequate care?

No, not at all! You're mixing me up with the woman on the other thread, whose stated intention was to go into a care home but didn't want to pay for it.

We just do not want to go into care homes! I have worked in them, in the 'black years' 1992 to 1997, I've been told I 'had to' get people up at 5 am and was criticised by permanent staff because I 'hadn't got enough of them up'. I would rather die.

I wasn't asking about care homes at all! Really, this all started from Kittie's suggestion about doing EPA between the 2 of us. I wish I'd never started it now.

We are not looking at all the 'doomsday scenarios'. We're working on the assumption that we may have another 10 (at least) or more years ahead. We do what we can to stay healthy. I'm also saving and investing so that, if we DO have to spend money on 'care' (preferably in our own home) there will be funds accessible without having to go cap-in-hand to any council employee. I have no interest in enriching any owner of a care home!

Margaret

margaretclare

Willman_Rodders wrote: »

My suggestion would be ...

1. each make an EPA (before 1st October 2007 - and remember it takes time to complete an EPA);
2. include specific power limitation clauses (I am not sure yours is 'tight' enough; your solicitor will offer guidance); and
2. keep control of the original document, placing it with your will and lodged with your solicitor.

Thank you, Rod. I think we shall do all that. Early next week (after the exam!) if I haven't had an email back from our solicitor I'll give her a ring. There does seem to be a lot more to it than just downloading a package online, especially regarding 2. above.

I am a little upset that this conversation seems to have wandered off into the usual thing one gets on here 'going into a care home but don't want to pay for it'. Ed has completely misunderstood:

Assuming you could not afford to pay this yourselves, do you think it would be right to try and insist that the council paid out more (of the taxpayer's money) than it needed to to provide adequate care?

I never said, or implied, any such thing. Of course, if neither of us needs our own home i.e. both of us are carted off somewhere appalling against our will, then the property is only bricks-and-mortar and we can use the value of it for whatever we choose. I have always said so. However, I have nursed people in their own homes before now, delivered babies at home, I see our local district nurses out-and-about every day, calling on people in bungalows round about. One district nurse came here to remove clips from a wound and she said she wished she could always work in such good conditions and pleasant surroundings as the ones we have here.

Anyone who wishes to put a charge on this property will discover that there is a lifetime mortgage in place, so Northern Rock have first charge. Any council charge will be a second one.

Margaret

djohn2002uk

margaretclare wrote: »

I wasn't asking about care homes at all! Really, this all started from Kittie's suggestion about doing EPA between the 2 of us. I wish I'd never started it now.
Margaret

Margaret, don't feel like that about a few posts. This has, to me, been the most valuable thread I've read on this forum for a long long time and if you hadn't started it I'm sure a lot of people would be a lot poorer information wise.
My thanks go also to the people who have contributed the valuable information.

margaretclare

Hi all

I think the problem is solved. I've just had a letter back from our family solicitors in response to my email. Our solicitor is willing to be appointed joint Attorney in each of our EPAs. The cost for drawing up the 2 EPAs will be £160 + VAT.

I think this is probably the best solution, the one that DH will be happiest with, and not that expensive really. It's a small firm of solicitors and they've dealt with several matters for us in the last few years - DH's divorce, our equity release, our wills (they also have a list of all the names and addresses of the 5 named beneficiaries in our wills). So we'll probably see them next week or the following week, soon anyway.

Thanks to all.

Best wishes

Margaret

margaretclare

Just a bit of an update - we now have an appointment to see our solicitor next Wednesday morning 11.30 am and will get the whole thing sorted. Peace of mind - cheap at the price.

Margaret

Errata

Congrats on being able to put things on a sensible footing. Nowt like Law Society's checks and balances to ensure everything is done correctly, and cheap as chips when taken as a percentage of the estates. Live long.

margaretclare

Errata wrote: »

Congrats on being able to put things on a sensible footing. Nowt like Law Society's checks and balances to ensure everything is done correctly, and cheap as chips when taken as a percentage of the estates. Live long.

I agree. Having been a professional myself in the past, I've always believed in going to the professionals to get the job done properly. You pay £5 for what they do and £95 for what they know. Too much penny-pinching and cutting corners to 'save money' can result in losing money in the long-term.

Margaret

RAS

Hi

Thanks to you and Willman. I have been meaning to sort this out for ages and obviously the October deadline makes it more urgent.

I am actually attorney for my DS and BIL if anything happens to them and was joint with BIL on my mum's account.

The situation that decided DS was not the losing marbles bit, but the fact that a dear friend who was a single parent was critically injured in a car crash. Since he was in a coma and had no attorney, nothing could be paid out of his account to support his child, except the DDs. Unfortunately, food shopping etc was not on DDs, not surprisingly.

Ds did not want that sort of situation ever to occur if anything happened to her and BIL. And they certainly did not want the children's future to be decided by someone appointed by the Court of Protection. One of the reason is is being re-named is because it has been subject to numerous investigations by Parliament etc which have been quite damning.

Regardig the house, what we did with mum was agree that the attorneys could not sell the house without registering the EPA with the Court of Protection. We also put in a clause that allowed one attorney to sign cheques upto a certain amount and needed both to sign above that. Thius meant that one of us could go on holiday and the other could still sort things out on a day to day basis.