UK needs +7 Million immigrants to keep debt down

HAMISH_MCTAVISH

Sampong wrote: »

No - I shouldn't.

You'd expect a highly trained economist to account for that anyway.

Ah.

So it's likely they have then, when talking about the net fiscal benefit of immigrants to society.

Good to know.:)

TruckerT

Is it good, or bad, to know that the opinions of the highly trained OBR economists are as open to constructive criticism as the opinions of uneducated MSE posters like me.

TruckerT

ruggedtoast

One of my nieces has a summer job in an OAP care home. I asked how much the fees are and apparently about £500 a week, £2000 a month. I almost fell off my chair. Do they serve lobster and caviar each night on silver platters?

Apparently not, this is a pretty normal fee now.

Considering they are barely paying any of the staff above minimum wage, as far as I can see buy only the cheapest catering packs of food, and rely completely on 999 or the local GP for most medical care, I find it very hard to believe the break even price of the "care" in these places is anything like what they are charging.

In fact it seems like a complete racket.

ILW

What happens when all these new immigrants reach retirement age?

HAMISH_MCTAVISH

ILW wrote: »

What happens when all these new immigrants reach retirement age?

Was there a part of net fiscal gain you didn't understand the first time?

ILW

ruggedtoast wrote: »

One of my nieces has a summer job in an OAP care home. I asked how much the fees are and apparently about £500 a week, £2000 a month. I almost fell off my chair. Do they serve lobster and caviar each night on silver platters?

Apparently not, this is a pretty normal fee now.

Considering they are barely paying any of the staff above minimum wage, as far as I can see buy only the cheapest catering packs of food, and rely completely on 999 or the local GP for most medical care, I find it very hard to believe the break even price of the "care" in these places is anything like what they are charging.

In fact it seems like a complete racket.

Work out the sums based on say a 10 bed home, to include everything from 24 hour care to mortgage interest, no great fortunes to be made.

CLAPTON

ruggedtoast wrote: »

One of my nieces has a summer job in an OAP care home. I asked how much the fees are and apparently about £500 a week, £2000 a month. I almost fell off my chair. Do they serve lobster and caviar each night on silver platters?

Apparently not, this is a pretty normal fee now.

Considering they are barely paying any of the staff above minimum wage, as far as I can see buy only the cheapest catering packs of food, and rely completely on 999 or the local GP for most medical care, I find it very hard to believe the break even price of the "care" in these places is anything like what they are charging.

In fact it seems like a complete racket.

Maybe try to do the arithmetic on how many staff are required to cover 24 hour 7 days a week before slagging off any organisation.


I do (unpaid ) work for a local care home.

It is a registered charity.

All the trustees work for nothing (that means NO expenses and NO salary and NO perkes; basically for NOTHING).

There are only two 'managers'. Both on modest salaries (less that 30k per annum) and both hands on.

It's true all the carers/cleaners/kitchen staff work for more than the NMW
but the fees are a lot more than 500 per week.


Do the bloody arithmetic.

HAMISH_MCTAVISH

CLAPTON wrote: »

Do the bloody arithmetic.

Assuming 3-4 members of staff during the day for every 20 residents, plus 2 in evenings, plus one overnight, you're talking 7 staffing work days every day of the week. Plus a manager.

Assuming a bit of overtime for public holidays, some sick leave, holiday pay, and employers NI, that's the best part of 250K a year in wages alone before considering recruiting and training expenses. Probably £300K all in.

Then add assorted additional back-office support expenses for billing, accountancy, insurance, etc. Another £50K anyway.

Plus materials, food/catering, medicines, facilities, property, etc. at least another £100K.

Now realise that 2000 per month for 20 residents = £480K per year.

With costs of 450K plus per year.

It's not cheap to look after people.... And margins are thin, hence so many care homes going under.

TruckerT

CLAPTON wrote: »

Maybe try to do the arithmetic on how many staff are required to cover 24 hour 7 days a week before slagging off any organisation.


I do (unpaid ) work for a local care home.

It is a registered charity.

All the trustees work for nothing (that means NO expenses and NO salary and NO perkes; basically for NOTHING).

There are only two 'managers'. Both on modest salaries (less that 30k per annum) and both hands on.

It's true all the carers/cleaners/kitchen staff work for more than the NMW
but the fees are a lot more than 500 per week.


Do the bloody arithmetic.

I would like to applaud you for your contribution to the Big Society.

I hope you have calculated how the benefits are shared out.

You no doubt gain some satisfaction for yourself, and I would hope that the care home residents value your contribution.

But how do the residents qualify for the subsidy which you provide?

Do they pay their own fees in full?

TruckerT

Generali

Graham_Devon wrote: »

And all those we usher into the country will require pensions too...

It's a pyramid scheme, nothing more, nothing less.

If we define a pyramid scheme as one which pays returns to existing members from the investment of new members rather than by investment returns then the state pension is a pyramid scheme.

We're not the only people that think so:

http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/finance/ianmcowie/100022256/state-pension-reform-winners-and-losers-as-the-biggest-ponzi-scheme-ever-unravels/

http://www.economist.com/node/21530106