safe way to get rid of a electric socket.

keystone

madjay wrote: »

It clearly does not say it is okay to plaster a joint within a wall so I do not know what you are reading into it.

Ye Gods and tiny little fishes - this is like pushing slush uphill with a rake. Have you a comprehension problem or are you just being deliberately obtuse? Just ask your NICman (so you have independent verification) if you can't see it - one phone call is hardly challenging is it?

Oh .... it! I'm bored with this nonsense. Look at the bits I've boldened.

Every connection shall be accessible for inspection, testing and maintanence,except for the following:

(i) A joint designed to be buried in the ground
(ii) A compound-filled or encapsulated joint
(iii) A connection between a cold tail and the heating element as in ceilingheating, floor heating or a trace heating system
(iv) A joint made by welding, soldering, brazing or appropriate compressiontool
(v) A joint forming part of the equipment complying with the appropriateproduct standard.

Crimp it properly (or solder it if you want), sleeve it, test it and you can do what you like with it as it doesn't have to be accessible. Bury it in dog poo if you want you will still meet the reg.

It doesn't say thou shalt not use a junction box either does it? However, the meaning is clear that you can't use a junction box and then make it inaccessible.

You can't cover every possible eventuality in the regs - the Big Book would weigh several tons. Learn to extrapolate a bit old son.

Cheers

cyclonebri1

keystone wrote: »

Cy - don't you ever complain again when I mention thread creep!. Another winkfest as well I see.

Cheers

Got to keep this only half serious, nudge nudge wink wink, (that better) ooops

I'll tell you where it went off a little, I inadvertently called those pluggy in things childproof, just a description so folks would know what I meant. Can't blame me if the "what about the children " focus group got on board :A

cyclonebri1

smashingyour... wrote: »

You've followed me round several boards so have a look yourself. ;););););););););););)

No, just a few sections in this forum to check that you actually were posted total useless comment and don't appear to have any actual factual input to offer.

You will be here a while, then probably get bored or get thrown off, your type always do eventually.

Cool it, get off my case and try to help rather than annoy.

keystone

Bump up in case MJ missed my reply to him at post 42 when he was here earlier this afternoon.

Cheers

madjay

keystone wrote: »

Ye Gods and tiny little fishes - this is like pushing slush uphill with a rake. Have you a comprehension problem or are you just being deliberately obtuse? Just ask your NICman (so you have independent verification) if you can't see it - one phone call is hardly challenging is it?

Oh .... it! I'm bored with this nonsense. Look at the bits I've boldened.



Crimp it properly (or solder it if you want), sleeve it, test it and you can do what you like with it as it doesn't have to be accessible. Bury it in dog poo if you want you will still meet the reg.

It doesn't say thou shalt not use a junction box either does it? However, the meaning is clear that you can't use a junction box and then make it inaccessible.

You can't cover every possible eventuality in the regs - the Big Book would weigh several tons. Learn to extrapolate a bit old son.

Cheers

This is like many other Sparkys, your interpretation of this Regulation but there is also an equal amount of Electricians, who have been in the industry along time, agree with my interpretation.

This is base on the following:-

1) As Electricians, we have always been taught that it is Bad Practise to bury a joint in a wall without any access to it.

2) and another difference of opinion in the industry - You can not and do not crimp small solid core cables. Crimping to solid core wire creates a weakpoint in the wire, which can lead to breakage.

And I can not remember the last time I saw someone Sweat (Solder) a crimp lug on a cable.

I do not have to point out most houses are wired in twin and earth cable which are solids.

So if you got two Electricians to do the job right you could end up two different installation results.

I sit in the camp that does not crimp solids and does not bury joints, and I would always advise to remove cables and install a joint box within the floor void.

So we are just going to have to agree to disagree on this subject

Myser

You can use Wago push-fit connectors that are suitable for burying in walls.

With the correct type of crimp for solid core cable and the appropriate crimping tool, there won't be a problem.

However, most electricians just use ordinary crimps and a pair of pliers.

lstar337

madjay wrote: »

2) and another difference of opinion in the industry - You can not and do not crimp small solid core cables. Crimping to solid core wire creates a weakpoint in the wire, which can lead to breakage.

I'm not an electrician, though I did do some training in the early stages of my electronics qualification, but it seems to me that if a connection is burried within a wall and is assumed un-moving, then surely any minor weakening of a solid core via crimp tools would not result in a breakage?

Surely that weakness, which I believe would be very minor, would need to be continually stressed for an breakage to occur?

Just my two cents.

madjay

Myser wrote: »

You can use Wago push-fit connectors that are suitable for burying in walls.

Myser wrote: »

With the correct type of crimp for solid core cable and the appropriate crimping tool, there won't be a problem.

However, most electricians just use ordinary crimps and a pair of pliers.

Wago push fit connectors are deem a connection block and not a joint made by welding, soldering, brazing or appropriate compression tool therefore would have to be accessible for inspection, testing and maintanence.

Myser

madjay wrote: »

Wago push fit connectors are deem a connection block and not a joint made by welding, soldering, brazing or appropriate compression tool therefore would have to be accessible for inspection, testing and maintanence.

Wago connectors are classed as 'Maintenance-Free'. Certain Wago connectors can accept solid-core as well as stranded wires. If you ask the ECA or other electrical body, they will tell you that it is fine to bury them in a wall provided that they are inside a suitable enclosure. However, it also seems to be accepted to bury some Wago connectors without an enclosure.

It would probably fall under note: (ii) A compound-filled or encapsulated joint

Might be useful at this stage to have some input from the OP scooby088 as to what they have decided?

keystone

madjay wrote: »

This is like many other Sparkys, your interpretation of this Regulation but there is also an equal amount of Electricians, who have been in the industry along time, agree with my interpretation.

No problem with that - the issue between us is that you categorically stated that a crimped joint was not acceptable under the 17th not that in your opinion you would not accept it as being so. Yes - its a very fine line but nevertheless the wording of tthe clause is quite clear even if your opinion you wouldn't use one.

1) As Electricians, we have always been taught that it is Bad Practise to bury a joint in a wall without any access to it.

Nevertheless the 17th allows it.

[QUOTE]You can not and do not crimp small solid core cables. Crimping to solid core wire creates a weakpoint in the wire, which can lead to breakage.[/QUOTE] Nevertheless the 17th allows it and you'll recollect that I did say that ait should be properly crimped that is to say using a proper ratcheted crimp tool not any old thing. Any old thing can create a weak point I agree.

And I can not remember the last time I saw someone Sweat (Solder) a crimp lug on a cable.

I didn't suggest anyone should. Soldering the cores together is an alternative to crimping not a part of it.

I do not have to point out most houses are wired in twin and earth cable which are solids.

No you don't.

So if you got two Electricians to do the job right you could end up two different installation results.

No problem with that.

I sit in the camp that does not crimp solids and does not bury joints,........

Fine.

.............and I would always advise to remove cables and install a joint box within the floor void.

and how would you make that joint box accessible if the fllorbaords are then nailed down and carpet or laminate or similar fitted over the top of it?

So we are just going to have to agree to disagree on this subject

Yes that's OK but the discussion point remains that you said that a crimped joint was unacceptable under the 17th (which it is not) rather than you would not do it which is quite, quite different.

However we have got miles away from the OP's original question which was what is the safest way to remove the socket whilst retaining the possibility of reinstatement which remains in my opinion and as stated in the second post on this thread to join the cables within the backbox and fix a blanking plate to the outside of the backbox.

Cheers