right of way

Filey

!!!!!! wrote: »

Does it say anything about purpose? E.G 'for all purposes' If it doesn't then by omission it is for all purposes which includes use by people coming to the house etc.

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Hi !!!!!!

Nothing else at all. That's the lot. In other words an all purpose RoW.

Thanks for that.

anselld

Filey wrote: »

I didn't think anyone was asking for permission.

well ... "Permission may be requested from no 21 ..."

but it sounds like you have made your decision.

Filey

anselld wrote: »

well ... "Permission may be requested from no 21 ..."

but it sounds like you have made your decision.

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It is the tenants who were to ask for permission, not me. Perhaps if I said 'to notify' instead of 'request permission', it would be better.

And no, I remain open minded. I am simply explaining my reasons for adding the clause to the tenancy agreement in the first place. I may well remove the clause anyway as the next door person is being so unreasonable.

I used to live in this cottage B myself, and if, say, I was having some building materials delivered, or a new washing machine, I would always say to next door neighbour-at-the-time (not this present one) in cottage A oh by the way Anne I am having such and such delivered tomorrow.

Mojisola

Filey wrote: »

It is the tenants who were to ask for permission, not me. Perhaps if I said 'to notify' instead of 'request permission', it would be better.

And no, I remain open minded. I am simply explaining my reasons for adding the clause to the tenancy agreement in the first place. I may well remove the clause anyway as the next door person is being so unreasonable.

I used to live in this cottage B myself, and if, say, I was having some building materials delivered, or a new washing machine, I would always say to next door neighbour-at-the-time (not this present one) in cottage A oh by the way Anne I am having such and such delivered tomorrow.

Telling your neighbour and asking permission are quite different things - the first is where you have total rights to use the pathway and you're being polite and the second implies that that neighbour has the right to say no to you.

Filey

Mojisola wrote: »

Telling your neighbour and asking permission are quite different things - the first is where you have total rights to use the pathway and you're being polite and the second implies that that neighbour has the right to say no to you.

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Absolutely right Mojisola! I will amend the wording (if I decide to keep the clause in).

freeisgood

Yes, good idea. Because if your neighbour just said "no, you cant have that sofa etc ...delivered across my land, ever" what then?

ValHaller

Filey wrote: »

It is the tenants who were to ask for permission, not me. Perhaps if I said 'to notify' instead of 'request permission', it would be better.

And no, I remain open minded. I am simply explaining my reasons for adding the clause to the tenancy agreement in the first place. I may well remove the clause anyway as the next door person is being so unreasonable.

I used to live in this cottage B myself, and if, say, I was having some building materials delivered, or a new washing machine, I would always say to next door neighbour-at-the-time (not this present one) in cottage A oh by the way Anne I am having such and such delivered tomorrow.

That is 'tell' not 'ask' ....

It seems to me to be far better not to put anything in the agreement. If you put in 'notify', your tenants may start 'asking' which will be detrimental. Note how often people on these forums express things indirectly with the word 'ask' - for example a recent thread 'can we ask for a stair rail for safety?', when of course they can ask till they are blue in the face. The real question is 'could we expect our Landlord to provide a stair rail?'.

If your tenants are not blunt, they may well notify by saying 'can we have our patio table delivered tomorrow?', which will tend to erode your rights and give the neighbour wrong expectations.

Land_Registry

My initial reaction to the thread is simply to emphasise the need to seek legal advice to clarify not only the legal situation but the impact on your tenants etc.

There may though be some additional clarity required around a couple of posts re the right of way itself and how such things may change over time.

The wording quoted is quite standard and simple in it's wording i.e. it is a right of way with no apparent restrictions around only being only on foot etc.

Such rights of way will often be referred to on the benefitting (dominant) title and the title subject (servient) to the right. That may not always be the case though and as an earlier poster mentioned your neighbour's title may make no mention of it although it is rare for the servient title to be silent in such circumstances.

Other posts also refer to such rights as lapsing over time and/or weakening if you seek permission to exercise them.

Time is not, in our opinion, sufficient to extinguish such a right. The person entitled to the right of way must not only have stopped exercising it, but also to have shown a specific intention not to use it or attempt to give it to someone else.

As far as 'seeking permission' weakening the right of way is concerned all I can add is that it is not something I have come across in the context of rights of way. It can impact on adverse possession claims where use or occupation of land is carried out with consent but with rights of way you either have the right or you don't - asking for permission or not using it on it's own tends not to change that.

As mentioned though it is legal advice you need before you put anything in writing or seek to formalise it in any way with your neighbour or tenant.

We do provide some online guidance around rights (easements) which may be of interest although it is aimed at conveyancers and legal advisers as it refers to legal teminology and case law.

Mojisola

Land_Registry_representative wrote: »

As far as 'seeking permission' weakening the right of way is concerned all I can add is that it is not something I have come across in the context of rights of way. It can impact on adverse possession claims where use or occupation of land is carried ot with consent but with rights of way you either have the right or you don't - asking for permission or not using it on it's own tends not to change that.

It wouldn't change it in law but could change the attitude of the neighbour, making it more difficult to use the right of way in future. When a neighbour is already being awkward about a ROW, it won't help to reinforce their idea that they have control over its use.

Filey

[QUOTE=Mojisola;62562571__When_a_neighbour_is_already_being_awkward_about_a_ROW,_it_won't_help_to_reinforce_their_idea_that_they_have_control_over_its_use.[/QUOTE]
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Too right Mojisola.

I am going to replace an elderly wooden gate/door between my cottage B's back garden and Cottage A's back garden which is used to access the right of way behind cottage A to the street. I went to tell next door person, and to say the joiner would need access for his tools and materials. I was also going to suggest a lock with keys on the street gate/door might be a good idea so we didn't have to bother her whenever we wanted access. (Always try to be diplomatic).

However she didn't seem to be in, so I went home and wrote a letter saying the above, took it round that afternoon. She still wasn't in so I posted it through her letter box. Am awaiting developments.

I have an appointment with my solicitor next Monday.

BTW When the man who cut the grass went back in the afternoon to collect the cuttings, as he had told her he would, he was unable to get in.