right of way

Filey

Some advice please.

Like a lot of the old houses in my village, it was divided into two dwellings at some time. Lets call them cottage A and cottage B. I own cottage B. They front onto the street and the only access to the back gardens is along a passage down the side of cottage A. To get to the back door of cottage B (mine) there is a right of way down the passage and behind cottage A through a gate into my back garden.

I used to live in cottage B myself, and had an amicable neighbourly relationship with the owner of cottage A. I mostly used the front door, except when putting out the bins or taking delivery of something bulky and suchlike.

I let cottage B now, and cottage A is now owned by someone else. The present owner of cottage A fell out with my previous tenants of cottage B as she would have preferred them to have no access in her garden, and even offered to buy the right of way from me. I declined her offer.

New tenants are about to move in to cottage B and in order to try to keep owner of cottage A sweet I said I would have a clause put in the tenancy agreement as follows:-

."" No. 23 (cottage has a right of way along the passage on the west side of No. 21 (cottage A) and along the path to the rear to reach Stonegate to be used only for the moving of waste bins on collections days and garden equipment and should not be used as an access route to the rear door of the property
Permission may be requested from no 21 if large items are required to the rear of the property which are unable to be brought through the property from the front.""

Owner of cottage A telephoned my letting agent and asked for a copy of the tenancy agreement. The agents wouldn't give her one. I saw her in the village and told her what I was going to have put into the agreement, and pointed out that in the deeds it simply said "right of way" without any restrictions and I was doing this in the interests of good will. (New owner hasn't seen this yet.) I suggested it it might have been a good idea to have asked me rather than the agent.

She went on at length about wanting to enjoy her house and garden, for which she had worked hard the last 40 years, in peace, and would get her solicitor to write to me and was prepared to go to court if necessary.

Today I had a man round to cut the grass in cottage B's back garden. He and the agent politely told N.O. beforehand it would be done. Grass cutting man did the job, then told N.O. he would have to return in the afternoon with a bag for the grass. You can't, he was told. I'm going out and the the passage door will be locked.

All very unpleasant and unnecessary. I hate falling out with people but if it becomes necessary i will not back down, assuming I am in the right.

So here I am, asking this knowledgeable lot, what they think, or would do, in these circumstances.

angelsmomma

I used to live in a house with this. It was very odd having people walk past my kitchen window but it was on the deeds so nothing could be done about it.

I was a childminder but ofsted would not renew my registration because I could not lock the side gate to keep the children safe when outside. I did ask my neighbours but they refused to let me lock the gate even if I gave them a key and there was nothing I could do about it.

timbo58

Surely angels momma all those with rights to a right of way if they are supplied with keys/combination to any lock securing the right of way, still have 'right of way' since they are not denied free access to that RoW?

GwylimT

Its tough for her, if she didn't want people walking through her garden she shouldn't have bought property with a right of way, it really is as simple as that.

You could always have your solicitor write her a letter advising what she can and cannot do regarding a right of way and the possible implications of blocking a right of way.

angelsmomma

timbo58 wrote: »

Surely angels momma all those with rights to a right of way if they are supplied with keys/combination to any lock securing the right of way, still have 'right of way' since they are not denied free access to that RoW?

The neighbours pointed out that the right of way was for window cleaners and other tradesmen so if they were out who would let the said tradesperson through the gate.

I did see their point and just sold the house as if my solicitor had done their job properly, (they did not have the right of way marked on the plan they gave me) I would not have bought it in the first place.

I decided that life is too short and just moved on.

RAS

If by Stonegate you mean a street, then up here there are thousands of properties where the garden can only be accessed from the house by crossing a common right of way; a lot I know actually have a private road with vehicular access between the house and garden.

She has no right to restrict your access or that of any one you wish to access the garden or rear door if the deeds give you a right or way.

Do however download her deeds from the Land regsitry (£3) and check that her deeds list the right of way. I knew one case where the accesser had the right on their deeds and the accessed did not.

Longer term the other option (if she gets legal), is for her to sacrifice a suitable width of land at the bottom of the land (and along the side) for your sole use, in exchange for moving the right of way away from the house.

timbo58

I think the owner needs to find out whether this is a common RoW (i.e. anyone can use it) or a conditional RoW (i.e. only named properties owners/tenants can use it).

If it's the latter then I am not at all sure that the property owners/tenants can 'transfer rights' to whomever they like.
If they can then a combination lock would be enough surely? make sure it's a combination bolt that cannot be removed as if it was just a padlock it might go 'missing'.
You can't force the other users to lock it after they have accessed but it's better than nothing.

Filey

Many thanks for all those that have replied and the helpful suggestions. What people have said about the next door neighbour being unable to restrict the right of way bears out what I thought.

timbo 58
it is a conditional right of way and applies only to the residents in cottage B (mine).

Yes it seems obvious that if we had a yale type lock on the gate from the road and keys for both cottages then security would be satisfied. I will suggest it to her but I expect she will refuse even if I paid for it. Actually it is more a door set into a wall rather than a gate but the principle is the same. At present she bolts it on the inside.

RAS
I wil look at her deeds as you suggest. I expect it will say similar as on mine, '......over and along the passage situate on the West side of the adjoining cottage on the West and over and along the path immediately behind such adjoining cottage leading from the rear of the property hereby conveyed to and from Stonegate aforesaid.'

Couldn't be clearer really.

GwilymT
Exactly what I thought. I have asked my solicitor to check it out. She (cottage A) actually said to me she would go to court if necessary to ensure her rights to private enjoyment of her property.

The new tenants are moving into cottage B (mine) today. It will be interesting to see how it goes. I will keep you informed, and thanks for your input.

timbo58

Filey: get a combination bolt (i.e. a bolt on the outside of the gate with a number combination -built in can't be removed).

Worth fitting the bolt on with anti-vandal 'clutch' screws as then it can't be easily removed either.


Then supply all those with right of way with the number in writing (possibly send this recorded delivery or post it through the letterbox yourself), you have then satisfied the fact they have unhindered right of way, although they might well argue they want to access the lock from the rear/front therefore maybe a yale lock & keys is better.

You'd have to remove her bolt and ensure she doesn't fit another mind.

paddy's_mum

Filey wrote: »

."" No. 23 (cottage has a right of way along the passage on the west side of No. 21 (cottage A) and along the path to the rear to reach Stonegate to be used only for the moving of waste bins on collections days and garden equipment and should not be used as an access route to the rear door of the property
Permission may be requested from no 21 if large items are required to the rear of the property which are unable to be brought through the property from the front.""

My alarm bells are ringing that you may be playing right into the neighbour's hands!

My gut feeling is that inserting this clause into a contract may turn out to be working against your own interests, especially if the lady does indeed take this before a court. Why would a judge not believe that you yourself doubted your right of way when you have effectively diluted your own entitlements?

You either own a RoW or you don't. Why would you (or anyone 'inheriting' the right) need to seek permission to exercise that right?

This might be a money saving site but I urge you as strongly as I know how to spend out good hard cash on a solicitor experienced in Land law to advise you - before you bend over too far backwards in your efforts to appease this neighbour who should have done her homework if she didn't want the bother of a RoW across her garden.

Doing anything at all that may weaken your rights of access could lead to a massive drop in the value of your property, in the same way that land-locked ground has little value. You might be wise to look up the concept of prescriptive rights before you give this bullying, ill-informed, provocative neighbour even an inch of inroad into the right you currently enjoy.

princeofpounds

Do not use that clause in the tenancy agreement!

As Paddy's mum says, if you give an inch with bullying it rewards the behaviour. She will do her best to keep pushing the boundaries. Plus it muddies your legal rights (not much, but why bother).

Remember, when you use the passage you are doing NOTHING wrong. When your tenants use the passage they will be doing nothing wrong.

She knew what she was buying when she bought the place.

Ask your tenants to be considerate in their use if you like, but only informally. And thank your agent for not being stupid enough to give out a copy of the agreement.

And given the whole property and all its rights will be demised by you to your tenants, I really doubt you could ever hope to enforce such a clause anyway.

Unless there is some big issue you have hidden from us, she will not go to court. Any solicitor she sees will advise her that she has no chance of winning, alhtough I suppose she can waste her money if she likes. Though they may offer to write pseudo-legal letters to try to scare you off, these will likely have no backing in law.

You may eventually have to go to court to stop her bad behaviour one day though.