LandLord Sold Garden Which Was Under Tenancy

G_M

Given the wording of the AST, which is fairly standard, the relevant factor IS the Title Plan at Land Registry.

The tenancy will apply to :

Flat A
Number 1
Somewhere Street
A Town

So you need tolook at the Land Reg Title Plan for the lease relating to .... Flat A, Number 1.

That Plan will show the extent of the tenancy.

The potential difficulty will be if the Plan has recently changed (eg part of the garden was sold and a new Plan created since your tenancy started).

Your tenancy applies to the Plan that was current at the time the tenancy started.

I do not know if it is possible to get historic Plans from the LR. Perhaps the Land Reg Rep could enlighten?

moneyistooshorttomention

This thread is certainly proving a good "warning sign" to tenants with gardens to have it specified not just that they have use of the garden, but as to exactly what size said garden is (ie not the one square foot of turf or thereabouts that a previous poster mentioned would probably legally constitute a garden, though none of us would consider it to be).

Definite worth bearing in mind a motto of "You never know when someone is going to decide to do a bit of garden grabbing" (ie flog off a garden as if it was development land). It certainly wouldn't have occurred to me (if I were a tenant) that a landlord might try and steal some of my garden (that I was paying good rent money for) as I thought that was just something I had to be aware a next-door neighbour (home-owner) might get up to..and de-green my surroundings I had paid for.

Land_Registry

G_M wrote: »

Given the wording of the AST, which is fairly standard, the relevant factor IS the Title Plan at Land Registry.

The tenancy will apply to :

Flat A
Number 1
Somewhere Street
A Town

So you need tolook at the Land Reg Title Plan for the lease relating to .... Flat A, Number 1.

That Plan will show the extent of the tenancy.

The potential difficulty will be if the Plan has recently changed (eg part of the garden was sold and a new Plan created since your tenancy started).

Your tenancy applies to the Plan that was current at the time the tenancy started.

I do not know if it is possible to get historic Plans from the LR. Perhaps the Land Reg Rep could enlighten?

If the tenancy matches the leasehold extent then G_M is quite correct and it is an avenue to pursue.

When the garden was sold off remapping may occur but generally the removal would be shown on the original freehold plan and a new plan created for the garden ground.

The leasehold plan would remain unchanged

But if the lease affected the Flat and Garden ground the lease should now be recorded against both the original freehold title and the new garden freehold title. So another clue will exist as to the extent of any tenancy if it is based on the whole of the lease to the Flat as G_M suggests.

I would still expect the AST to specifically refer to the actual tenancy i.e. of Flat A but as mentioned we do not register ASTs so my experience of these is negligible.

If the OP is obtaining the relevant information from Land Registry then hopefully all will be revealed.

adrihd

You are correct, the 'address of residence' is listed explicitly as what I use as my postal address i.e.

100B Whatever Street
Town
County, AA11 9ZZ

I'm just wondering. What happens if the garden itself has been left as it originally was i.e. part & parcel with the building? i.e. it's just listed as:

100 Whatever Street

rather than

100A, B, C, D Whatever Street?

I do remember something being mentioned about a 'new plot was being proposed with the address '123 SideRoad Street'.. So not the actual street that I'm on. When we had those letters from the council asking for our permission. (which of course I objected against)

I'll go down the council tomorrow and get a copy of the document they sent me way back when.

Unfortunately, I didn't have a scanner nor PC when this all started so I didn't scan it.

Either way I'll know more tomorrow. Whilst I'm waiting for these Title's etc... I just want to say thanks to everyone so far for this amazing advice and help!

adrihd

Just to confirm before I get anything, the only documents I can see which I have access to are:

1) Title Plan
2) Title Register
3) Flood Risk Assessment

I take it that it's 1 & 2 above that I need to get? As 2 seems to refer to 1 alot in the example I've looked at i.e. talking about boundaries/areas etc...

Thrugelmir

2) AST clearly shows that the garden is part of 'my home'
4) The garden is a communal garden between 4 people

Communal is used or shared. Not belonging to. Just as you are granted access to communal areas in your block.

franklee

OP Do you still have the advertisement you responded to? For example rightmove or agent's listing that says studio flat with communal garden etc. Also you discussed your maintaining the garden with your landlord before you did the work, is any of that in writing? It supports your case that the garden came with the tenancy as otherwise why would the landlord have given you permission to work on it? That correspondence should have been an opportunity for the boundary to be explained to you.

As for the land registry stuff the tenancy is assumed to be the whole of the property unless the tenancy agreement excludes anything. So it may exclude the garden, garage, loft ...

I would have thought the landlord is on thin ice claiming retrospectively that the garden was only a smaller area. Surely it's to the obvious boundary unless it was drawn to your attention (and preferably documented) that there was an invisible boundary (where the white line was later drawn) before you took the tenancy as part of the viewing and setting up the tenancy.

Still this thread illustrates yet again that tenants ought to buy the land registry entry before taking on a tenancy just to check the information therein matches what they've been told (and that the landlord is the owner etc.).

G_M

adrihd wrote: »

Just to confirm before I get anything, the only documents I can see which I have access to are:

1) Title Plan
2) Title Register
3) Flood Risk Assessment

I take it that it's 1 & 2 above that I need to get? As 2 seems to refer to 1 alot in the example I've looked at i.e. talking about boundaries/areas etc...

Make sure you are getting the leasehold Plan & Title.

adrihd

I dont have that option? I literally only have those three, here's a copy and paste (which may look weird and unformatted) but it's literally a copy and paste from theLand Reg site for my address as to what's available:

The route I'm taking is (I can't paste links as I'm still new) :

1) Go to the land reg website
2) Click on Public (not a submenu thereof)
3) Click on 'Title Documents' at the top
4) Click on 'Order title plans or registers online' (I cant see any other)
5) Click on 'property search' in the first paragraph of the page entitled ' How can I get a copy of a title register and/or title plan?'

Sorry I've never been involved in this side of owning a property here in the UK. And being Dutch, the terminology is different (even in translation) despite having had a property there before I moved.

I'd rather claim ignorance, than be an idiot and get the wrong pieces of paper. It looks like I've met my legal savvyness' match!

Sorry to trouble you,

Regards,

Adrian

adrihd

Literally copied and pasted:

Buy Type Cost
Title register (example ) £3.00
Title plan (example ) £3.00
Flood Risk Indicator result (example) £9.00 (excl. VAT)