LandLord Sold Garden Which Was Under Tenancy

adrihd

cattie wrote: »

I have to admit that the post made by e2000 makes sense. If you have not been deprived of a garden, & it doesn't sound as if you have if there is still a small area available to be used by all tenants, then you all still have share of a communal garden.

Also, unless your rent is considerably higher than comparable bedsits/studios in the area that don't have gardens, then I don't quite understand what all the fuss is about with the LL deciding to sell a bit of their land when given the opportunity to do so & make a bit of money for herself.

I've lived in houses converted into flats with shared garden & no tenant has ever considered the garden as 'theirs'. It was always thought of as just an added bonus & certainly if a landlord had wanted to sell part of it on, it would never have entered any of our heads to kick up such a fuss about it if we were still being left with a reduced outdoor space to continue to enjoy should we so wish to do so.

You mention your rent is already very low, so I wouldn't hold my breath regarding getting a reduction in rent. Rather, you probably will get your marching orders at the first opportunity. You say you don't care, but with your finances in such a bad state, why have you even risked your current tenancy I wonder.

Studio Flats in the area go for generally £400-450 a month, because this had a massive garden which I was hard at work in, I bit the bullet and dealt with the higher rate. The LL knows this as if you look at my OP, the carpet was only replaced on a 'quid pro quo' basis that I stay longer in the property.

I don't see this garden as 'mine' at all, I see it as OURS. The problem is that they are all scared of being evicted (as I mentioned before) and quite frankly, I'm the rattle snake in the grassy line that was crossed.

In regards to the rent so low? I didn't say that? If I did, it was out of context.. It's low in terms of LHA i.e. I can afford it whilst I set up my company with my extra x on top to make sure the extra was paid for. Finances were low when I moved in, but since then I've held a steady job, paid off a myriad of horrid debts, pulled myself out of depression (thanks to the garden) and finally saved enough to open up a company; which now is done, but as always, opening up a company isn't a 5 minute job. Not when you work in the scientific fields!

Naf

e2000's point about the size of the garden is a good one, if not specified in the tenancy agreement then it could be a square foot of earth in principle. There could be a case that the tenancy was made under a false pretence if you were told that the whole of the garden you could see was included before you signed. BT even if you were told, if not in writing then you still wouldn't have a case to chase.
I would suggest, however, that you try and have a discussion with the LL (amicably - just act like you're perfectly satisfied with the amount of garden you have left, and just want to discuss the bit that's been sold) over the work you put into her land which she let/led you to believe was all for your enjoyment. At the very least I'd be making a firm request that the flowers you'd planted be redone in the remaining space.

adrihd

The reason someone said about land registry was to make sure the garden hadn't been split up and the OP made an error thinking that the whole garden was theirs to enjoy, when in fact only half was and the other half wasn't part of the property.

I looked into that too. Whether or not the garden was part of the property, if not, it makes me wonder (not assume) if:

1) unfair terms of contract act 1999, deems the AST (contract) as not being transparent. As I remember a few case notes I read of a load of different contracts where the final words were quoting that 'a contract has to be transparent, and easily understandable'

2) The same act also mentions something along the lines of (cant remember the exact legal wording as they keep referring you back and fourth) is that if a contract is found to NOT having a clear meaning nor transparency, it can be deemed immediately terminated. Great if you are in a mobile contract, but I couldn't find exact case notes on LL vs T cases

adrihd

Naf wrote: »

e2000's point about the size of the garden is a good one, if not specified in the tenancy agreement then it could be a square foot of earth in principle. There could be a case that the tenancy was made under a false pretence if you were told that the whole of the garden you could see was included before you signed. BT even if you were told, if not in writing then you still wouldn't have a case to chase.
I would suggest, however, that you try and have a discussion with the LL (amicably - just act like you're perfectly satisfied with the amount of garden you have left, and just want to discuss the bit that's been sold) over the work you put into her land which she let/led you to believe was all for your enjoyment. At the very least I'd be making a firm request that the flowers you'd planted be redone in the remaining space.

I asked the LL a few weeks after I moved in, as a former neighbour warned me she didn't like people growing things in the garden. (it had to do with people growing drugs). But she let me literally have the run of the mill, and I confirmed this every time. All in writing. No boundaries were ever set until her son showed up with a paintbrush.

*editng* hang it while I edit!

I've told the Letting Agent that I'm drawing a line under this now, that we all just want out peace back. I'd prefer to leave it at that while I do all this research. It might be giving her false hope I've stopped champing at the bit, but it gives my neighbours some peace that I wont be causing uproar with her. They are, very scared of her... It's horrible, and nobody should live like that.

edit over

G_M

adrihd wrote: »

Hi,

Many thanks for your response on this as I would assume you are a really busy person!

The AST was formed late February 2010 BUT, I did kind of look into this and pre-empted this whole date thing when this was in its infancy.

I contacted planning to find out when the property: (fictitious address)

22 McGowan Road was Broken up into 22a, b, c and d McGowan Road and that was confirmed as having been done in the yearly 80's. It's scribbled down on one of my 10000 notepads I have archived away

Is this what you needed?

What does "kind of looked into..." mean?

Have you, as advised by several people, including the LR Rep, got hold of the various property Titles and compared the Plans?

It sounds to me like you have not.

But doubtless as you are now 'drawing a line under this now, .... while I do all this research" that will be your next job.

adrihd

right, I'll have to revise this entire thread this evening and tailor all of any answers to be fair, I've half done it but in my absence (the last hour) I've had the architect come around (unannounced) and tell us the tree is coming out and building commences next week :-/

back to the answers I'm tailoring them on TextEdit (Mac) so I can post them all in one huge @post rather than one at a time to save sill thread length!

adrihd

@all, sorry I'm switching back to the @ "at" system as otherwise my continued replies in context with quotes would be tremendously silly and make this thread horribly long.

@Prothet of Doom: About the rent, I'm looking at one now which already has lovely gardeners. Fine, with the money I can save, i can get my own allotment. This was merely to restore something which should be beautiful, and in return I got a community back to life.

By the looks of things, everyone is back to their 'own little bubbles' again

@Pee: About the Uni GOOD QUESTION! I saw Canterbury Christchurch popped up MANY times, but I'm 33, had my degrees over n done with so didn't realise I qualified?

If it's a student body of representation, I'd be MORE than happy to support the community if that's what it entails.

In regards to the notice, I'm looking as I type and read I've booked viewing for tomorrow as it is!

I feel she is too, but that's why I'm seeking legal advise, I need a judge to judge that. Although judges use the law as guidelines, they often use moral reasoning to make their judgements. I don't need to pretend nor perusal as I've got over 1000 shot of my garden from day rubble to recently

@roundturn: Battle NO, no no no…. I moved in here with MAJOR anxiety and depression. To this day I still leave the house and have to return 4 or 5 times to check the doors and windows to feel secure. So in no way do I like confrontation.

Do I like to be left alone, yes… That's the problem… ALl I every asked for was to live here, work in the garden, do my job and sleep.

The S21, as I said isn't a bother, I've got fallbacks About moving somewhere more peaceful, I'm looking now, and have made a booking for a viewing of a property predominantly rented by retired people. PERFECT!

@G_M & at TopQuark: LOL and I thought forelock was a rude word. Being Dutch by family, I'm not used to these interesting expressions. Haha interesting history behind that!

@both of you, no you don't need to be walked all over, but on the other side no you don't need to start war. This is why I'm here, doing it in a more civil manner No glove slapping, forelock tucking or otherwise whatever haha

@moneyistooshorttomention: The neighbours are a NEW story! They're annoyed about the fact that the 1) 40 foot tree which nests their birds is being dug out, and that the windows of the 3 story flats is overlooking their pool! I spoke to them casually about this in the past, but I'll give them call when the iron isn't hot and I need to sit down and have a good word with them with a level head.

THey often told me they were so pleased someone was working hard in the garden bare footed and bare handed (with minimal tools) and often named me tools to help. So I've got back in there!

@martinsurrey: At this point, I can't fight the actual garden but I have to fight my rights as that was a basic right which was clearly outlined.

@lincroft1710: I've spoken to Kent Messenger and they are happy to use Aliases to protect interest. At which point the LL will be mentioned too. When it goes legal and a judgement is made, only then aliases will be replaced with actual names revealing the actual people. Good point though.

@Silvercar: in your sponse to the above, rent was daybed ahead of time a lot of the time despite being on Housing Benefits right now. At one point I had the letting agents giving me free AST renewals to avoid paying me back credit

I have the full statement from day 1 to prove this, I preempted a rent argument.

@Naf: (your page 3 comment), pher reading and typing this fast has dropped my mac's wireless keyboard from 15% to 10 hahah Anyway, about e2000's point there's a cellar attached to the building, which there is no mention of anywhere in anybodies tenancies. A lobby for the front entrance to the top 2 flats, no mention of rights there either, personal bin areas for each flat, no mention there too.

THis is why I mentioned earlier about the unfair contracts thing… transparency is a MUST in that act, and this is about as clear as mud. Speculation isn't law, law sees garden, there is a garden, thats's the garden; UNLESS there's reason for it not being garden, which is why I'm covering all avenues right now.

Here's a different take. You work for a company, you pay X tax (PAYE)by law. If your boss came up to you and said, oh by the way, the right to use the recreational area on lunch break is taxable as a benefit (and it's NOT in your contract) YET you still get taxed… is that legal?

n.b. in response with your "Never argue with stupid people, they will drag you down to their level and then beat you with experience. - Twain" signature, hence why I've gone into comms blackout and 'fluffiness' with the letting agent I'm literally farting against thunder.

THE BIG ONE @ G_M: I looked into the year that the property was broken up into 4 separate flats. The council needed this as I was disputing a load of disrepair on a bathroom that used to be an outhouse, which turned out to be a BAD builders job connecting it to the kitchen.

I MUST admit I retyped this particular post about 5 times as I REALLY didn't want to wast the Land Reg's Reps time, so I left it at the facts which they needed.

What I needed it for was the bathroom was an outhouse (quite obvious by the external brickwork) but that and the inter joining "bath" area which joined onto the original kitchen were showing signs of BAD frost in winter, so I showered at the gym. Even the old bar heater with the pull cord would end up all damp! In the summer, the bathroom was RIDDLED (I use caps for a reason) with black mould. And no matter how much bleach, anti fungal spray or detergent I used… 2 days later, it was back again.

In the end I lost my tether, went to the local council (Swale Borough Council) and they asked me for those details.

So after being sent up and down their lift about 30 times, I got to the planning department and got those details for them… A week later, I was promised a new bathroom i.e. walls stripped and cladded etc… which took over a year to do :-/


ADN WOW I reached the end! *sigh* my fingers ache! but I'd rather answer in this form to keep things as short as possible as I know it's a hell of a lot of reading and replying for you, but I'd like to minimise it I'm happy to tap away, but it's the joys of being a PM (Project Manger haha) with 10 projects on the go You tend to learn to type whilst reading Hence why I got a Mac, the autocorrect is great... but it often mis-spells words to the americanised version despite the locality!

grifferz

adrihd wrote: »

@all, sorry I'm switching back to the @ "at" system as otherwise my continued replies in context with quotes would be tremendously silly and make this thread horribly long.

Just a tip, if you use the "multiquote" button which is to the right of the "quote" button on the bottom of each post you wish to quote and reply to, it puts all the quotes into one response for you to edit.

So then you can do like:

some1 wrote:

blah blah blah

Good point some1!

some2 wrote:

blah blah

I'm afraid I must disagree, some2.

And it looks a lot clearer. Also it links back to their original post so anyone can see what their full text was.

adrihd

grifferz wrote: »

Just a tip, if you use the "multiquote" button which is to the right of the "quote" button on the bottom of each post you wish to quote and reply to, it puts all the quotes into one response for you to edit.

So then you can do like:

Good point some1!


I'm afraid I must disagree, some2.

And it looks a lot clearer. Also it links back to their original post so anyone can see what their full text was.

Thanks! But the reason I did this sis because I read individually reading each post without having to scrolll back to pages to find it I'll use a bit nor sense of bold italic and colour when using @'s then It's just easier, and if posts come in while I'm going back I can just tack them in rather than fragment what's been said

adrihd

and to add as a non - quote it looks like v-bulletin or whichever forum system it is doesnt requote either This is why I prefer direct replies