Section 21 - don't have a protected deposit

johnjameson

G_M wrote: »

Did you look at my edit to post 25?

yes... i did... i read it a few times now
it seems too easy
i'm expecting to bend backwards and a do a triple high jump or something
surely it can't be that easy?

the text says:

Yes it is fine to use n5b and we have answered 'no' to that question without and problems. We usually attach a claimants witness statement with wording similar to:

With regard to the tenancy deposit, I state that the deposit was returned to the defendant on xxx/xxx/xxxx, ie before the service of section 21 notice as required by section 215(2A)(a) of the 2004 Housing Act. I attach defendants confirmation of this, marked ‘D’.

so, answering 'no' is ok - even though it's a yes - since a deposit was taken?

my head is spinning. too much info. thanks for the replies

G_M

The form is badly designed. You've discovered that, as there is no facility on the form for the scenario of a deposit taken, and returned.

So what Smorkerz has apparantly done is interpret the Q:

"was a money deposit received on or after 6 April 2007? as

" Are you holding a money deposit received on or after 6 April 2007?"

To ensure clarity for the judge reviewing this, he has attached a witness statement to explain.

His thinking presumaby was that to answer 'Yes' to the deposit Q, and then be unable to comply with the subsequent TDS Qs would automatically invalidate the form.

Of course, the fact he has done this successfully, apparently more than once ("usually attach..") is of course no guarantee it will work every time, with every judge.

Hence I would re-iterate my advice to discuss with court offiicial - but that is up toyou.

Yorkie1

johnjameson wrote: »

guys, thanks for the replies

- today i will draft up a letter to confirm that the tenant is happy to get their deposit returned
- i will thereafter serve a section 21 notice

the rent is due 26th, so i will date the section 21 to be 25th september

I haven't re-read this thread from the start to check if this point has already been covered.

The rent due date is irrelevant in determining the expiry date of the s.21.

What date did the original fixed term tenancy start and what date did it expire? Those are the relevant dates to enable you to calculate how to complete the s.21 notice correctly.

G_M

Yorkie1 wrote: »

The rent due date is irrelevant in determining the expiry date of the s.21.

Indeed.

Ending/Renewing an AST (what happens when the Fixed Term ends?)(What is a Periodic Tenancy?)(How can a LL remove a tenant?)(How can a tenant end a tenancy?)

[Deleted User]

Before you do all this, I would strongly advise directing your tenant to housing to ask questions on whether going to all this effort will just land her in B&B for a year or two, or a one room hostel.., and if she is prepared to do this.

See http://www.newham.gov.uk/Pages/ServiceChild/Housing-Register.aspx the Why Is It Important to complete HED? section in particular.

martindow

johnjameson wrote: »

guys, thanks for the replies

- today i will draft up a letter to confirm that the tenant is happy to get their deposit returned
- i will thereafter serve a section 21 notice

You must return the deposit first then issue the section 21. If you have merely sent your letter and not given the money back the section 21 will fail.

johnjameson

Guys, thank you for all the replies - much appreciated

I spent 25 minutes on the answer phone and got through to someone at Bow County court. They told me to simply add extra information to support the circumstances. They did say that this wasn't 'advice' or anything and they couldn't be held responsible if things went wrong (or something to that effect).

Well... by answering my question and giving a suggestion + accepting that the form was deficient, then you ARE giving advice! LOL
(She was polite and not rude or anything)

I'll do as the advice given on the Landlordzone website - I'll tick no and add support documentation giving details of the return of the deposit - a signed letter and a photo copy of the cheque

I've read the link for the section 21 and think I have my dates right

Yorkie1 wrote: »

What date did the original fixed term tenancy start and what date did it expire? Those are the relevant dates to enable you to calculate how to complete the s.21 notice correctly.

my 12 month tenancy contract started on 26th August 2010 and finished 25th august 2011

therefore my section 21 is OK if i serve notice today and request it to finish on the 25th september

if i serve after 25th of this month, then the section 21 date needs to me 25th october

have i got that right?

THANKS

G_M

johnjameson wrote: »

Guys, thank you for all the replies - much appreciated

I spent 25 minutes on the answer phone and got through to someone at Bow County court. They told me to simply add extra information to support the circumstances. They did say that this wasn't 'advice' or anything and they couldn't be held responsible if things went wrong (or something to that effect).

Well... by answering my question and giving a suggestion + accepting that the form was deficient, then you ARE giving advice! LOL
(She was polite and not rude or anything)

I'll do as the advice given on the Landlordzone website - I'll tick no and add support documentation giving details of the return of the deposit - a signed letter and a photo copy of the cheque

I've read the link for the section 21 and think I have my dates right


my 12 month tenancy contract started on 26th August 2010 and finished 25th august 2011

therefore my section 21 is OK if i serve notice today and request it to finish on the 25th september

if i serve after 25th of this month, then the section 21 date needs to me 25th october

have i got that right?

THANKS

Correct.

Remember 'service' is deemedtobe 2 working days after 1st class posting. Get proof of posting (NOT recorded delivery which tenant might refuse to sign for)

johnjameson

ok... i'm nearly at the finishing line... (the first one that is)
i will return the deposit today

but... then i got a call from a solicitor
i had a friend who is a partner in a small law firm, they got one of their colleagues to call me who works in the area and has expertise

they advised me to register with DPS - they are free
he didn't see any problem in registering the deposit late
given the circumstances - i.e. the tenant not being a problem with paying rent + they actually need to be evicted (as advised by the council in a written letter sent to me)... then he was of the opinion that this would be the best option

i told him that everywhere else i had sought after advice for, i was advised that other had strictly said that you *cannot* register a deposit - this is not valid
he seemed to brush this aside (not arrogantly) and said he saw no problem

any thoughts?

i don't have the luxury of delaying further
i will return the deposit and follow up with a section 21 thereafter (which will be in time and before the 25th)

Mr_Pitiful

johnjameson wrote: »

ok... i'm nearly at the finishing line... (the first one that is)
i will return the deposit today

but... then i got a call from a solicitor
i had a friend who is a partner in a small law firm, they got one of their colleagues to call me who works in the area and has expertise

they advised me to register with DPS - they are free
he didn't see any problem in registering the deposit late
given the circumstances - i.e. the tenant not being a problem with paying rent + they actually need to be evicted (as advised by the council in a written letter sent to me)... then he was of the opinion that this would be the best option

i told him that everywhere else i had sought after advice for, i was advised that other had strictly said that you *cannot* register a deposit - this is not valid
he seemed to brush this aside (not arrogantly) and said he saw no problem

any thoughts?

i don't have the luxury of delaying further
i will return the deposit and follow up with a section 21 thereafter (which will be in time and before the 25th)

You can protect it late, but it doesn't mean you can serve a valid S21. The N5b asks if the initial requirements of the scheme were met, and they haven't been, so the only option is to return it.