Section 21 - don't have a protected deposit

Yorkie1

As Werdnal says, in order for a s.21 to be valid, either a) the deposit must have been protected and the prescribed information supplied to the T in time, OR b) the deposit to have been returned before service of the s.21.

In order to serve a s.21 notice, it is recommended that you send it first class post from two separate post offices, getting free proof of posting. Do not email or use signed-for post.

The day the tenants pay rent is irrelevant. What date in a month did the tenancy start (look at the tenancy agreement) and what date of a month did it end?

e.g. 15th September - 14th March. The tenancy periods after the end of the fixed term therefore run 15th - 14th. A s.21 notice from you, if served after the end of the fixed period, must expire at the end of a tenancy period at least a month later.

So you can see there are quite a few hoops for you to get through successfully.

[Deleted User]

In a borough like Newham.., the tenant could end up in B&B very easily. She could be there for months/years. Depending on Newham's rules.., she may not even be considered to be living in overcrowded conditions (in my borough there has to be an age difference of 10 years between same sex children for them to be required to have seperate rooms, and the older child needs to be 16 (happened to me) which would get her more points (as well as for being evicted/homeless). She needs to think about this carefully. If she IS found to be homeless, most boroughs will only give one choice for LA property.., and they are rarely the best properties (they seem to save the crummiest ones in really bad areas for people with only one choice). If your tenant is in B&B and restricts properties that she will accept to only those in 'better' areas she could extend the time she is in B&B considerably. Being in a 'to be rehoused to a LA property' position is not the heaven it is often pictured to be.

You can't be successful with a S8 notice until the tenant is two months behind on the rent. If she pays some of that back before the court date, it won't succeed.

Obviously you aren't keen to return the deposit as you see this as carrying risks for you. But to serve a legal S21.., you have no choice. Without that, you have no chance of ensuring she leaves on /before sale of your property (unless you .., see para below). As I am sure you are aware, having a tenant in place will affect who will be interested in your property and its price. Paying the deposit back is not 'cheating' as such, its the only way you will be able to serve a S21 notice lol. You can't go back in time and put the deposit in a scheme now so this is your only option to serve a S21 notice legally.

If you wish to widen your options in selling your property, you could consider giving her some money to encourage her to find another private rental and leaving (but it will have to be a generous amount given the rental costs in Newham). And I suspect private rentals in Newham are going to cause problems with capping of benefit regulations.

I don't know if your tenant is working or not.

This might be another reason she wants to go into council property. She might not be able to afford to stay in Newham without getting a council property. But she could go through months plus of living in B&B to get one.., if at all (and these rentals are hardly prime). She might have to consider moving out of a London Borough and going to private rental elsewhere.

You could advise her to ring Shelter. They will be able to discuss her options with her. I'm afraid the social housing situation is far worse than either of you realise. However this does mean that Shelter could realise the implications of the lack of deposit protection and advise her she could get 3x her deposit back in court. However it is a difficult and expensive process so there is no certainty she will be able to do this even if advised this is an option.

johnjameson

guys thank u for making it clear for me

i have to return the deposit - full stop - i get this now

question: how can i return the deposit and get proof?
not sure if that's a dumb question
should i give a cheque? (i don't have a cheque book!)
should i ask for bank details on email and transfer to that?

sending the section 21 from 2 post offices...
why is email discounted?
my email is handled by gmail. her email is gmail
+ she needs to show the council the notice

thanks

G_M

* she wants the council to re-house her
* the council will not re-house her unless she is made 'homeless'
* to be 'homeless', she must be evicted (via a S21 initally, and then the courts)
* the courts will not evict unless a valid S21 has been served
* if the deposit is not returned in full first, the S21 will not be valid.

So you must refund the deposit in full (other than any agreed deductions).

See Plain English explanation!

---

* if she stops paying rent, you can issue a S8 Notice and then evict (via the courts) - the deposit issue does not affect this
* if she is evicted for rent areas she will be 'intentionally homeless'
* the council will not re-house her

giddypenguin

*puts head in hands*

It upsets me that people can just become a landlord with no idea of what they are doing whatsoever. Really didn't think it was possible to know even less of property law than a LA... but by jove, they are about aren't they?!

johnjameson

@g_m, @giddypenguin: i said i got it now

i was was asking about how to return the deposit
should i give it in cash in a stuffed envelope? (joke)

what's an LA?

@giddypenguin: the weekends is here and it's going to be sunny - please don't put ur head in hands because of me
lol

Werdnal

Take her the deposit (cash, cheque, gold bullion ... any form your wish), and write out a short receipt explaining what the money is for. You sign and date it, she signs and dates it - you have proof you returned it on that date and she accepted it.

Email service of S21 is not always acceptable in court, you might be lucky, but postal route is much safer and more likely to be accepted. What does oyur tenancy agreement say about the forms of notice that all allowed and what method of service is permitted.

It is very unlikley that the council will look at the S21 notice and say "Oh poor tenant, being evicted by your nasty LL, now here is a list of lovely council properties available for you to choose from, take your time, pick the one you want!" IT DOESN'T WORK LIKE THIS. The council WILL NOT house her UNTIL you evict her. The notice DOES NOT end the tenancy, only the court order you obtain once the notice expires in 2 month's time will do that.

Council properties are few and far between and unless/until you EVICT this tenant, she is very, very, unlikley to be offered a new home ... and particularly not by waving an S21 notice under the nose of the nearest Council Housing officer.

You issue the notice, you wait 2 months and you apply to court. Are you sure you know how to complete the notice correctly, otherwise this 2 month wait will be fruitless as the court will not grant you possession on the strength of an invalid notice ... it only need to have one date wrong, and court will throw it out.

I think on the stength of your apparent lack of knowledge displayed here, you are going to be back in 2 months with a post entitled "Court chucked out my S21 notice - what now?", so make sure you understand the whole process fully before you start. Returning the deposit is the easy bit - serving a valid, correctly dated, correctly worded and proved served on the correct day S21 can be more complicated.

benjus

If you want to make sure your S21 is correctly served, why not find a local solicitor that works with Landlord/Tenant law? This may not be considered moneysaving, but it's better than finding out in court that there was a defect in your S21.

Yorkie1

Or, join a local / national LL's association. Joining fee is tax deductible.

johnjameson

guys all replies have been super helpful
but i am still stuck

deposit will be returned

then someone forwarded me the court form
i tried uploading a link to the doc - but the website won't let me as a new user
the form is a "n005b-eng" - hoping that someone knows what this is

on page 3 it asks if a deposit was taken
if yes, then it asks for details of the deposit and the reference number

what do i do...?

for the section 21 itself...
ok... i've done loads of reading up
i can't believe it's as complex as it is!!
it's a one page document
my rent is due on the 26th of every month
i've tried upload a link to the file - but website stops me
is there anyway i can upload or give a link so that i can get feedback?

thanks